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 Greater Israel and the Jewish temple 
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Unread post Greater Israel and the Jewish temple
Asalaam alaikum,
My views

GREATER ISRAEL
let's first understand, the term Israel. It's the name given to the Prophet Jacob AS as most of you are aware. The jews interpret the meaning of the name as 'wrestles with God'
the interpretation is distorted because in the story, Jacob AS wrestled with an angel and won. I guess, either some people have wrongly associated the angel with God and hence the way it's interpreted implies, Jacob was wrestling God.

It's obvious why this is the wrong interpretation. It's quite clear, the meaning of Israel......is "al-jihad fi sabil Allah". We also know Jerusalem means 'City of Islam'.

We all know the religion of the Prophets of Israel was indeed, Islam. Of course a lot of ignorant people laugh at this because they somehow believe Islam is confined to the Quran and Hadith, ie the religion of Prophet Mohammad SAW and do not realise, the Quran/Hadith are the instructions we've been given to allow us to follow the path of islam, from that time onwards.

Of course, we only have to ask these people 'what religion did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph AS practice?' it clearly wasn't judaism and it clearly wasn't the laws of Moses, yet they were all Muslims according to our beliefs, because they submitted to the will of God.



THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL
Who are the children of Irael? or even before that, who are the children of Abraham AS? The christians on here will know plenty on this topic. If you've read the New Testament. The true Israelites are again, the ones who submit to the will of God. According to the teachings of Paul, the jews were literally 'cut off' as branches are cut off the tree and the gentile believers (those who believed in Jesus and became Christians) were 'grafted in'

Here's one of the best arguments made by Paul in Romans 11

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... rsion=NASB

The muslims here SHOULD read the entire chapter.

The idea of a 'remnant' is the key here. We cannot just assume the jews will always remain 'kafirs' as the promise is for the specially chosen remnant only. Chosen by God!

In the book of Daniel it tells us

Daniel 12

12 “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. 2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting [a]contempt. 3 Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

the key here is

"your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued."
and
"Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life,"

The prophecies of the greater israel are based on the beliefs of a messianic era.....and THIS is the messianic era, when the 'dead' will be ressurected. The 'last day'. It's the same reason why Jesus AS promised the people of jews of his time

Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

The idea here being these jews would return at the end of time to witness the promised messianic era.


Of course it is irrelevant whether the jews themselves believe in this. I believe in it and I find no reason why any muslim shouldn't believe in the future kingdom of Israel, who's king will be the messiah, Jesus AS.




TO CHRISTIANS

Any Christian who believes the modern false state of israel IS the beginning of this fulfillment must ask himself the following questions

1) how modern israel was funded? If it's strength is in God, then why do the rothschild family own most of it's land? ie it's funded by usury, forbidden in islam and in christianity.
2) how modern israel, defends itself. If it's strength is in God, then why does it take armed solders in tanks, to destroy palestinian villages?
Whatever happened to the following

Psalm 44
2 With your hand you drove out the nations
and planted our fathers;
you crushed the peoples
and made our fathers flourish.
3 It was not by their sword that they won the land,
nor did their arm bring them victory;
it was your right hand, your arm,
and the light of your face, for you loved them.
4 You are my King and my God,
who decrees victories for Jacob.
5 Through you we push back our enemies;
through your name we trample our foes.
6 I do not trust in my bow,
my sword does not bring me victory;
7 but you give us victory over our enemies,
you put our adversaries to shame.




or

Zecheriah 4
Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith Jehovah of hosts.



Netenyahu and Co can easily deceive many a short-sighted christian by selectively quoting out of te books of Moses, as if the rest of the bible has no importance.

of course, the religion of Islam was established in much the same way as the ancient state of Israel, by the power of God and followers who had the spirit of God. The following ayats are no different to the above texts.

008.009
YUSUFALI: Remember ye implored the assistance of your Lord, and He answered you: "I will assist you with a thousand of the angels, ranks on ranks."

008.011
YUSUFALI: Remember He covered you with a sort of drowsiness, to give you calm as from Himself, and he caused rain to descend on you from heaven, to clean you therewith, to remove from you the stain of Satan, to strengthen your hearts, and to plant your feet firmly therewith.

008.017
YUSUFALI: It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).


This is how a small group of believers destroyed great empires despite being outnumbered. Whilst there were over a million Israelites under Moses and over half a million grown men, the early muslim armies were much smaller and posessed far inferior weapons yet defeated empires. Modern israel on the otherhand could wipe out any arab country within an hour and any city in europe for that matter....hardly the 'hand of God'

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/isra ... ycaps.html


of course the muslims have been sinful for a long time, lucky we could rely on our strength in numbers as islam grew but the second the enemy created weapons of mass destruction, the muslims have lost their grip (so much for pakistan and it's nuclear weapons).




THE MASJID AL AQSA

The actual mosque we call 'masjid al Aqsa' is NOT the actual masjid al Aqsa. The real Masjid Al Aqsa IS the whole site, the 'noble sanctuary'. If you don't believe me, look it up.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=o6Yu ... sa&f=false

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FG6Z ... sa&f=false

The "al-Jami' al-Aqsa" was built after the Prophet SAW and hence after the ascension. It was built over the ruins of the Christian church, which itself was built over the roman ruins which were built over Herods temple, the extended version of the earlier temple.

It is very much accepted that even the current masjid doesn't stand over the true location of the REAL temple. I also don't believe it was Hadrat Umar RA who built this masjid, it was built after even him. Afterall it was not his tradition to build mosques over any other previous places of worship. What Umar RA built was a small enclosure originally over the Rock and that was to protect and mark it our as an important site.

I...genuinely believe the modern masjid, never was a 'part of the plan' and was not even necessary. It didn't exist in the time of Prophet SAW and was (imo) built as a show of power, probably by Muwaiya (and we all know what a lot of muslims think of him). If you think about it, the building of a masjid on such an important site when there was no religious calling for it, shows it was just built to antagonise jews. The masjid, is bidah lol.

The site itself was no longer even our Qiblah and muslims/jews alike were praying on the site before the masjid was built (during the lifetime of Prophet SAW). Even if the jews built a temple, it wouldn't take anything away from what we already have.


anyway, one last reason why I could care less....is because the temple Mount itself (ie the actual masjid al aqsa site) is going to be destroyed anyway.



The REAL messianic events surrounding the holy site.

Isaiah 4:2-6
In that day the branch of the LORD shall be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land shall be the pride and glory of the survivors of Israel. And he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy, every one who has been recorded for life in Jerusalem, when the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning. Then the LORD will create over the whole site of Mount Zion and over her assemblies a cloud by day, and smoke and the shining of a flaming fire by night; for over all the glory there will be a canopy and a pavilion. It will be for a shade by day from the heat, and for a refuge and a shelter from the storm and rain.

Zechariah 6:13
Take from them (the returning exiles from Babylon) silver and gold, and make a crown, and set it upon the head of (Yeshua) Joshua, the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord of hosts, "Behold, the man whose name is the Branch: for he shall grow up in his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord. It is he who shall build the temple of the Lord, and shall bear royal honor, and shall sit and rule upon his throne. And there shall be a priest by his throne, and peaceful understanding shall be between them both.

Ezekiel 38:18-22
But on that day...says the Lord GOD, my wrath will be roused. For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

Revelation 16:17-21
The seventh angel poured his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" And there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as had never been since men were on the earth, so great was that earthquake. The great city [Jerusalem] was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered great Babylon, to make her drain the cup of the fury of his wrath. And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found; and great hailstones, heavy as a hundred-weight, dropped on men from heaven, till men cursed God for the plague of the hail, so fearful was that plague.



Zechariah 14:2-1
For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives which lies before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley; so that one half of the Mount shall withdraw northward, and the other half southward. And the valley of my mountains shall be stopped up, for the valley of the mountains shall touch the side of it; and you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD your God will come, and all the holy ones with him. On that day there shall be neither cold nor frost. And there shall be continuous day (it is known to the LORD), not day and not night, for at evening time there shall be light. On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea; it shall continue in summer as in winter. And the LORD will become king over all the earth; on that day the LORD will be one and his name one. The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft upon its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses. (0)


I just wish people stopped fighting over a lost cause and got on with it :)


PS
i'm not being soft nor am I being paid by zionists to say this and nor do I give a damn about modern israel any more than a give a damn about 'the kingdom of saudi' arabia. I believe everything happens for a reason. Same reason why Babylon destroyed jerusalem at one time and why the Prophet Daniel AS had no problem accepting the will of God and serving the king of babylon. In time, Jerusalem/the temple was rebuilt and babylon was destroyed by other people.

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Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:42 pm
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Unread post Re: Greater Israel and the Jewish temple
Quote:
I...genuinely believe the modern masjid, never was a 'part of the plan' and was not even necessary. It didn't exist in the time of Prophet SAW and was (imo) built as a show of power, probably by Muwaiya (and we all know what a lot of muslims think of him). If you think about it, the building of a masjid on such an important site when there was no religious calling for it, shows it was just built to antagonise jews. The masjid, is bidah lol.

The site itself was no longer even our Qiblah and muslims/jews alike were praying on the site before the masjid was built (during the lifetime of Prophet SAW). Even if the jews built a temple, it wouldn't take anything away from what we already have.


anyway, one last reason why I could care less....is because the temple Mount itself (ie the actual masjid al aqsa site) is going to be destroyed anyway.


Walaikum Assalam

What an insult, calling it bida'ah, you have Muslims sacrificing their lives to protect the site, the surroundings of which have been blessed by Allah the Most High: -

17. 1 Glory to (Allah) Who did take His Servant for Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did Bless -- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

Abu Darda [ra] is quoted as saying that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said,a prayer in the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) is worth 100, 000 prayers, a prayer in my mosque (in Medina) is worth 1, 000 and a prayer in Jerusalem is worth 500 prayers more than in an any other mosque. (Bukhari)

Abu Dhar [ra] is quoted as saying, I asked the beloved Prophet Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) which was the first mosque on earth? 'The Sacred Mosque (in Makkah),' he said. And then which, I asked? 'Masjid al Aqsa,' he said. I further asked, what was the time span between the two? 'Forty years,' the Prophet [Alayhis salaam] replied. (Muslim)

By saying it didn't exist in the time of the Prophet Muhammad Salalahu Walayhusalam, you deny the night of Ascension of ever have been occuring.

Allah Subhana Wa'a Ta'ala gave it importance, the fact it was ever appointed by Allah Subhana Ta'ala amongst all the other places in the world as a qibla gives it enough importance and that it was chosen as the place where all the Prophets may peace be upon them were lead in prayer pretty much negates your whole statement.

Stop being so apologetic, anatagonize them? They have been banished from the place, their not even supposed to be where they are now as Jews who refuse to go back there themselves say, its better that its used to proclaim Tawheed then the abomination called the Dajjal.

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Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:24 am
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Unread post Re: Greater Israel and the Jewish temple
Asalaam alaikum, thanks for posting and all but you've got it all wrong. No offense but you clearly did not read the post at all except where it suited you. Go and read everything I wrote again, diligently.

Read the links aswell
Take special note of this quote

“Verily, ‘Al-Aqsa’ is a name for the whole mosque which is
surrounded by the wall, the length and width of which are
mentioned here, for the building that exists in the southern part of
the Mosque, and the other ones such as the Dome of the Rock and
the corridors and other [buildings] are novel (muhdatha).
Mujir Al-Din Al-Hanbali”


The 'Al-Aqsa refers to the Haram itself (ie the Temple Mount). The individual buildings DID NOT exist during the time of the Prophet SAW. The above quote is speaking of both the dome of the rock and the masjid known as "al-Jami' al-Aqsa" which was built by Muawiya, wrongly attributed to Umar RA.

As the above quote even calls it 'muhadatha' that does mean Bidah.


Also, anything you say about Jews is null and void when you take into account what i've posted on that topic. In fact, to even claim the jews

Again, let me repeat, you need to read and take into account EVERYTHING i've said. Don't quote me out of context either.


PS
this thread doesn't belong in this section. The 'end times' section perhaps, or even the common ground section.

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Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:43 pm
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Unread post Re: Greater Israel and the Jewish temple
Interesting take.....I kind of get where bro Molvi is going about this.

Here's a quick note:
One of the unique attributes of the Last Ummah of the Final Prophet, previous Ummah could only perform solat at designated places.....this Ummah is made permissible to perform anywhere on the face of this Earth.
[The Jews who refused to admit Prophethood of the Final Prophet envied this very much]

A quick wiki about the opening of Jerusalem by Sayyiduna Umar Al-Khattab radiallahu anhu.

Surrender

Image
Present-day building of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, where Sophronius invited Caliph Umar to offer Salah.

In early April 637, Umar arrived in Palestine and went first to Jabiya,[14] where he was received by Abu Ubaidah, Khalid, and Yazid, who had traveled with an escort to receive him. Amr was left as commander of the besieging Muslim army.[15]

Upon Umar's arrival in Jerusalem, a pact known as The Umariyya Covenant was composed. It surrendered the city and gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians in exchange for jizya. It was signed by caliph Umar on behalf of the Muslims, and witnessed by Khalid, Amr, Abdur Rahman bin Awf, and Muawiyah. In late April 637, Jerusalem was officially surrendered to the caliph.[16] For the first time, after almost 500 years of oppressive Roman rule, Jews were once again allowed to live and worship inside Jerusalem.[2]

It has been recorded in the annals of Muslim chronicles, that at the time of the Zuhr prayers, Sophronius invited Umar to pray in the rebuilt Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Umar declined, fearing that accepting the invitation might endanger the church's status as a Christian temple, and that Muslims might break the treaty and turn the temple into a mosque.[9] After staying for ten days in Jerusalem, the caliph returned to Medina.[17]

Aftermath

Image
The Dome of the Rock, constructed by Ummayad Caliph Abd al-Malik in 691.

Following the Caliph's instructions, Yazid proceeded to Caesarea, and once again laid siege to the port city. Amr and Shurahbil marched to complete the occupation of Palestine, a task that was completed by the end of the year. Caesarea, however, could not be taken until 640, when at last, the garrison surrendered to Muawiyah I, then a governor of Syria. With an army of 17,000 men, Abu Ubaidah and Khalid set off from Jerusalem to conquer all of northern Syria. This ended with the conquest of Antioch in late 637.[18] In 639, the Muslims invaded and conquered Egypt.

During his stay in Jerusalem, Umar was led by Sophronius to various holy sites, including the Temple Mount. Seeing the poor state of where the Temple once stood, Umar ordered the area cleared of refuse and debris before having a wooden mosque built on the site.[19] The earliest account of such a structure is given by the Gallic bishop Arculf, who visited Jerusalem between 679 and 682, and describes a very primitive house of prayer able to accommodate up to 3,000 worshippers, constructed of wooden beams and boards over pre-existing ruins.[20]

More than half a century after the capture of Jerusalem, in 691, the Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik commissioned the construction of the Dome of the Rock over a large outcropping of bedrock on the Temple Mount. The 10th-century historian al-Muqaddasi wrote that Abd al-Malik built the shrine in order to compete in grandeur with the city's Christian churches. Whatever the intention, the impressive splendor and scale of the shrine is seen as having helped significantly in solidifying the attachment of Jerusalem to the early Muslim faith.[19]

Over the next 400 years, the city's prominence diminished as Saracen powers in the region jockeyed for control. Jerusalem remained under Muslim rule until it was captured by Crusaders in 1099 during the First Crusade.

===================================================================

Just goes to show why masajid built with grandeur (to show off) but totally devoid of nur/ruh is one of the small sign of the Qiyamah.


Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:10 pm
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Unread post Re: Greater Israel and the Jewish temple
asralfarhi wrote:
Interesting take.....I kind of get where bro Molvi is going about this.

Here's a quick note:
One of the unique attributes of the Last Ummah of the Final Prophet, previous Ummah could only perform solat at designated places.....this Ummah is made permissible to perform anywhere on the face of this Earth.
[The Jews who refused to admit Prophethood of the Final Prophet envied this very much]

A quick wiki about the opening of Jerusalem by Sayyiduna Umar Al-Khattab radiallahu anhu.

Surrender

Image
Present-day building of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, where Sophronius invited Caliph Umar to offer Salah.

In early April 637, Umar arrived in Palestine and went first to Jabiya,[14] where he was received by Abu Ubaidah, Khalid, and Yazid, who had traveled with an escort to receive him. Amr was left as commander of the besieging Muslim army.[15]

Upon Umar's arrival in Jerusalem, a pact known as The Umariyya Covenant was composed. It surrendered the city and gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians in exchange for jizya. It was signed by caliph Umar on behalf of the Muslims, and witnessed by Khalid, Amr, Abdur Rahman bin Awf, and Muawiyah. In late April 637, Jerusalem was officially surrendered to the caliph.[16] For the first time, after almost 500 years of oppressive Roman rule, Jews were once again allowed to live and worship inside Jerusalem.[2]

It has been recorded in the annals of Muslim chronicles, that at the time of the Zuhr prayers, Sophronius invited Umar to pray in the rebuilt Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Umar declined, fearing that accepting the invitation might endanger the church's status as a Christian temple, and that Muslims might break the treaty and turn the temple into a mosque.[9] After staying for ten days in Jerusalem, the caliph returned to Medina.[17]

Aftermath

Image
The Dome of the Rock, constructed by Ummayad Caliph Abd al-Malik in 691.

Following the Caliph's instructions, Yazid proceeded to Caesarea, and once again laid siege to the port city. Amr and Shurahbil marched to complete the occupation of Palestine, a task that was completed by the end of the year. Caesarea, however, could not be taken until 640, when at last, the garrison surrendered to Muawiyah I, then a governor of Syria. With an army of 17,000 men, Abu Ubaidah and Khalid set off from Jerusalem to conquer all of northern Syria. This ended with the conquest of Antioch in late 637.[18] In 639, the Muslims invaded and conquered Egypt.

During his stay in Jerusalem, Umar was led by Sophronius to various holy sites, including the Temple Mount. Seeing the poor state of where the Temple once stood, Umar ordered the area cleared of refuse and debris before having a wooden mosque built on the site.[19] The earliest account of such a structure is given by the Gallic bishop Arculf, who visited Jerusalem between 679 and 682, and describes a very primitive house of prayer able to accommodate up to 3,000 worshippers, constructed of wooden beams and boards over pre-existing ruins.[20]

More than half a century after the capture of Jerusalem, in 691, the Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik commissioned the construction of the Dome of the Rock over a large outcropping of bedrock on the Temple Mount. The 10th-century historian al-Muqaddasi wrote that Abd al-Malik built the shrine in order to compete in grandeur with the city's Christian churches. Whatever the intention, the impressive splendor and scale of the shrine is seen as having helped significantly in solidifying the attachment of Jerusalem to the early Muslim faith.[19]

Over the next 400 years, the city's prominence diminished as Saracen powers in the region jockeyed for control. Jerusalem remained under Muslim rule until it was captured by Crusaders in 1099 during the First Crusade.

===================================================================

Just goes to show why masajid built with grandeur (to show off) but totally devoid of nur/ruh is one of the small sign of the Qiyamah.



Salaams bro, I wasn't really talking about the Dome of the Rock though.

I'm talking about this

Image

It's construction was attributed to Umar RA but there's no real evidence he built it.

Al-Aqsa Mosque as a whole is confused with a particular building within it, also known as al-Jami' al-Aqsa or al-Qibli or Masjid al-Jumah or al-Mughata, these names refer to the southern building with the silver lead dome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Aqsa_Mo ... nstruction


The al-Aqsa Mosque is located on the Temple Mount, referred to by Muslims today as the "Haram al-Sharif" ("The Noble Sanctuary"), an enclosure expanded by King Herod the Great beginning in 20 BCE. The mosque resides on an artificial platform that is supported by arches constructed by Herod's engineers to overcome the difficult topographic conditions resulting from the southward expansion of the enclosure into the Tyropoeon and Kidron valleys. At the time of the Second Temple, the present site of the mosque was occupied by the Royal Stoa, a basilica running the southern wall of the enclosure.[6] The Royal Stoa was destroyed along with the Temple during the sacking of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70 CE. Emperor Justinian built a Christian church on the site in the 530s which was consecrated to the Virgin Mary and named "Church of Our Lady." The church was later destroyed by Khosrau II, the Sassanid emperor, in the early 7th century and left in ruins


When Prophet SAW prayed on this site as we believe, there was nothing there. The al-Jami al-Aqsa was built later by Muawiya and not Umar RA (the sources attributing it to Umar RA are all very very weak).

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Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:22 pm
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