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 Muslim Hudna (Truce) with Ar-Rum (Romans/Byzantines). 
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Unread post Muslim Hudna (Truce) with Ar-Rum (Romans/Byzantines).
Sheikh Imran Hosein very often says in his lectures regarding end time that there will be an allince between the Muslims and the Rum. But I found it in the Quran in Surah Ar-Rum. So according to Quran that alliance had already taken place 1400 years ago.

I don't know any hadith regarding an alliance between the Muslims and the Rum during the end time. If anybody knows please tell me.

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Last edited by An Examinee on Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:30 am
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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
I don't think there is such a hadith concerning a future alliance. Then again I do disagree with what the Sheikh is saying, how he is saying it and where he is going with his views altogether.

I was going to email him but having heard him again, I realised he isn't interested in other views since his current views have gained too much momentum. 'Shame on them' he says, when they (ppl on the internet, which means he reads our views) disagree with him.

People now are not even talking about an alliance with 'rum' anymore but in fact contemplating the future relationship we will have with the Russians, especially in light of the current Iran situation.
They talk about it like it's definate, like there's no question because the Sheikh's view has become widespread. I think that's dangerous, a lot like how Ahmad deedats views were accepted blindly without question simply because he was a likeable person and spoke our language.

How can there be an alliance with Rome/Rum when we are meant to conquer it in more reliable hadiths? Furthermore this conquest actually takes place in constantinople. I've said this many times but a proper analysis of Bible prophecy.......will pretty much cement the islamic end times prophecies. It isn't just that muslims (or should I say BELIEVERS) are meant to conquer 'Rome' but the entire unGodly systems/empires will fall when their weakest part is attacked (book of daniel chapter 2, the feet of iron and clay).

The book of daniel and the book of revelation put everything into order. The Hadith prophecies merely explain some of thoe prophecies in more detail or from an islamic viewpoint or add more detail.

Ie.......the feet of iron and clay will be struck, the whole image will fall down.
The believers will conquer constantinople, the weakest part of the 1 world government. Feet of iron and clay represent the problems associated with globalisation. Just look at the eurozone crises, throw Turkey into the mix, the sick man of europe.

Rome, doesn't represent the eastern orthodox church or russia, it represents the 4th Beast of the book of Daniel and in it's latter period it will(is already in the process) re-emerge as a global empire containing peices of the previous 4 beasts. A 1 world government.

Don't lose site of this, you might not like the way i go about saying this or like that i quote from the bible, but this gets deeper and the more you analyse bible prophecy WITH full respect to hadith prophecy you'll see the connections pretty clearly.

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Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:21 am
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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
An Examinee wrote:
Sheikh Imran Hosein very often says in his lectures regarding end time that there will be an allince between the Muslims and the Rum. But I found it in the Quran in Surah Ar-Rum. So according to Quran that alliance had already taken place 1400 years ago.


What alliance? 1400 years ago?

Muslims during the Prophet sollallahu alaihi wasallam time waged war against Ar-Rum in the battles of Tabuk and Mu'tah.

Afterwards, Ar-Rum sure got whooped big time by Sayyiduna Khalid ibn Walid radiallahu anhu in the famous battle in Yarmouq (present day Jordan)....not to mention, various Muslim caliphates/dynasties laying siege upon siege until Sultan Mehmed II Al-Fateh finally conquered Constantinople in 1453.

Cutting it short - within the odd 7 centuries there certainly was no alliance between Ar-Rum and Muslims.

Fast forward - present time who are these Ar-Rum / ROMANS in the Quran and Hadith?
This ought to be clear enough - notice the stark similarity?

Image
The past - Byzantine Empire emblem standing in the front entrance of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople

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Present day - Byzantine flag bearer

Which present nation state of AR-RUM is able to field 80 divisions in 12,000 men arrangement in one single battlefield (80 x 12,000 = 960,000 men)?


Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:57 pm
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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
asralfarhi wrote:
An Examinee wrote:
Sheikh Imran Hosein very often says in his lectures regarding end time that there will be an allince between the Muslims and the Rum. But I found it in the Quran in Surah Ar-Rum. So according to Quran that alliance had already taken place 1400 years ago.


What alliance? 1400 years ago?

Muslims during the Prophet sollallahu alaihi wasallam time waged war against Ar-Rum in the battles of Tabuk and Mu'tah.

Afterwards, Ar-Rum sure got whooped big time by Sayyiduna Khalid ibn Walid radiallahu anhu in the famous battle in Yarmouq (present day Jordan)....not to mention, various Muslim caliphates/dynasties laying siege upon siege until Sultan Mehmed II Al-Fateh finally conquered Constantinople in 1453.

Cutting it short - within the odd 7 centuries there certainly was no alliance between Ar-Rum and Muslims.

Fast forward - present time who are these Ar-Rum / ROMANS in the Quran and Hadith?
This ought to be clear enough - notice the stark similarity?

Image
Byzantine Empire emblem standing in the front entrance of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople

Image
Present day Byzantine flag bearer

Which present nation state of AR-RUM is able to field 80 divisions in 12,000 men arrangement in one battlefield?


I think you don't know much about history. read this please.
http://www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/30/index.html

In short,

In 622 A. D. as the Holy Prophet migrated to Madinah, the Emperor Heraclius set off quietly for Trabzon from Constantinople via the Black Sea and started preparations to attack persia from rear. For this he asked the Church for money, and Pope Sergius lent him the Church collections on interest, in a bid to save Christianity from Zoroastrianism. Heraclius started his counter attack in 623 A. D. from Armenia. Next year, in 624 A. D., he entered Azerbaijan and destroyed Clorumia, the birthplace of Zoroaster, and ravaged the principal fire temple of Iran. Great are the powers of Allah, this was the very year when the Muslims achieved a decisive victory at Badr for the first time against the mushriks. Thus both the predictions made in Surah Rum were fulfilled simultaneously within the stipulated period of ten years.

Is that clear Asralfarhi ???

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Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:06 pm
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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
An Examinee wrote:
I think you don't know much about history. read this please.
http://www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/30/index.html

In short,

In 622 A. D. as the Holy Prophet migrated to Madinah, the Emperor Heraclius set off quietly for Trabzon from Constantinople via the Black Sea and started preparations to attack persia from rear. For this he asked the Church for money, and Pope Sergius lent him the Church collections on interest, in a bid to save Christianity from Zoroastrianism. Heraclius started his counter attack in 623 A. D. from Armenia. Next year, in 624 A. D., he entered Azerbaijan and destroyed Clorumia, the birthplace of Zoroaster, and ravaged the principal fire temple of Iran. Great are the powers of Allah, this was the very year when the Muslims achieved a decisive victory at Badr for the first time against the mushriks. Thus both the predictions made in Surah Rum were fulfilled simultaneously within the stipulated period of ten years.

Is that clear Asralfarhi ???


I understand the context of the beginning verses of Surah Ar-Rum.....victory of the Byzantines over Persia. Prior to this, Persia had the upper hand. So how does that equate to Alliance between Muslims and Rum? Where is the formal alliance?

The context of the hadith is definitely in the future (some may argue - borderline present day or even 'fulfilled prophecy').....with mentioning of the Malhamah Kubra, peaceful reconquest of Constantinople and the appearance of Dajjal later on.

So the question begs answering: which Ar-Rum nation fits into this hadith the most in light of current and breaking development today?

For greater clarity into this matter you'd have to read into the Banu Al-Asfar prophecies.


Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:27 pm
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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
@ Ashralfarhi Future prediction is prohibitted in islam .

In surah Ma'idah ayat 90 Allah says "O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful."

If you know any sahih hadith regarding a future alliance between muslims and rum tell me.

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Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:00 pm
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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
molvicorleone wrote:
Rome, doesn't represent the eastern orthodox church or russia, it represents the 4th Beast of the book of Daniel and in it's latter period it will(is already in the process) re-emerge as a global empire containing peices of the previous 4 beasts. A 1 world government.


When you start to see ex-Nazi Yankees the likes of the Bushes, Rockefellers, etc. suddenly turning into or changing aliases to Borises, Olgas & Vladimirs - that's when you suddenly realize the kind of game they play.

According to insiders; Russia has always been the 'senior state' among these one-worlders.

Follow the money.....which city is home to the highest number of billionaires in the world?
'MOCKBA' - mas-ko-ba; Yankees pronounce it as 'Mas-cow'


Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:11 pm
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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
An Examinee wrote:
@ Ashralfarhi Future prediction is prohibitted in islam .

In surah Ma'idah ayat 90 Allah says "O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful."

If you know any sahih hadith regarding a future alliance between muslims and rum tell me.


How does Hadith of Fitan of the End Times equate to haram future prediction?
Look it up; the important FUTURE events are already mentioned here....and can be found in many sahih ahadith.

If google does not work for you, try WUP search.
Start with < Malhamah Kubra >


Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:21 pm
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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
asralfarhi wrote:
molvicorleone wrote:
Rome, doesn't represent the eastern orthodox church or russia, it represents the 4th Beast of the book of Daniel and in it's latter period it will(is already in the process) re-emerge as a global empire containing peices of the previous 4 beasts. A 1 world government.


When you start to see ex-Nazi Yankees the likes of the Bushes, Rockefellers, etc. suddenly turning into or changing aliases to Borises, Olgas & Vladimirs - that's when you suddenly realize the kind of game they play.

According to insiders; Russia has always been the 'senior state' among these one-worlders.

Follow the money.....which city is home to the highest number of billionaires in the world?
'MOCKBA' - mas-ko-ba; Yankees pronounce it as 'Mas-cow'


To the point. This is what i like to believe. The Russians are not less evil than the Americans. There is no reason why the Russians will help Muslims. Just look at the Russian porn and alcohol industry. They are as bad as americans. So Muslims, don't be fooled by the day dream of a Russian Superman saving Muslims. ;)

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Unread post So
Which country is that, people?

I'm hanging in suspense.

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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
An Examinee wrote:
asralfarhi wrote:
molvicorleone wrote:
Rome, doesn't represent the eastern orthodox church or russia, it represents the 4th Beast of the book of Daniel and in it's latter period it will(is already in the process) re-emerge as a global empire containing peices of the previous 4 beasts. A 1 world government.


When you start to see ex-Nazi Yankees the likes of the Bushes, Rockefellers, etc. suddenly turning into or changing aliases to Borises, Olgas & Vladimirs - that's when you suddenly realize the kind of game they play.

According to insiders; Russia has always been the 'senior state' among these one-worlders.

Follow the money.....which city is home to the highest number of billionaires in the world?
'MOCKBA' - mas-ko-ba; Yankees pronounce it as 'Mas-cow'


To the point. This is what i like to believe. The Russians are not less evil than the Americans. There is no reason why the Russians will help Muslims. Just look at the Russian porn and alcohol industry. They are as bad as americans. So Muslims, don't be fooled by the day dream of a Russian Superman saving Muslims. ;)



You should have read the hadiths because they don't talk of it saving the day but tricking the Muslims: -

The hadiths about the Malhama Kubrah: -

"You will make a firm truce with the al-Rum until you and they wage a campaign against an enemy that is attacking them. You will be granted victory and great spoils.

Then you will alight in a plain surrounded by hills. There, someone among the Christians shall say: 'The Cross has overcome!' whereupon someone among the Muslims shall say: 'Nay, Allah has overcome!' and shall go and break the cross. The Christians shall kill him, then the Muslims shall take up their arms and the two sides shall fall upon each other. Allah shall grant martyrdom to that group of Muslims. After that the Christians shall say to their leader: 'We shall relieve you of the Arabs,' and they shall gather up for the great battle (al-malhama). They shall come to you under eighty flags, each flag gathering12,000 troops." [= approx. 1 million] Narrated with sound chains from Dhu Mikhbar al-Najashi by Abu Dawud, Ahmad, Ibn Majah, Ibn Hibban, and al-Hakim who declared it sahih and al-Dhahabi concurred. See Shaykh Shu`ayb Arna'ut's documentation of this hadith in his edition of Sahih Ibn Hibban (15:101-103 #6708-6709).

Zu Mukhammar said I heard the Messenger of Allah ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ say, " You will make a Hudna (Truce Agreement) with the Romans (Europeans), and together you and them will invade an enemy (located) behind you. You will be victorious, take much booty, and you will leave. Then, you will camp on a hilly pasture. When one of the Romans will approach (the Muslim army), raise a cross and says "The Cross has won", one of the Muslims will get angry and take off the Cross. Then, the Romans will trick (bluff or deceive) you, and gather (prepare) for the Malhama (War). They will gather an army against you and come against you with eighty banners, each banner followed by 10,000 (or 12,000) men." (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, and Ibn Majah)

These aren't daydreams nor predictions. Russia's army amounts to approximately 1 million, do your own research

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Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:06 pm
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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
AllahismyRefuge wrote:
The hadiths about the Malhama Kubrah: -

"You will make a firm truce with the al-Rum until you and they wage a campaign against an enemy that is attacking them. You will be granted victory and great spoils.

Then you will alight in a plain surrounded by hills. There, someone among the Christians shall say: 'The Cross has overcome!' whereupon someone among the Muslims shall say: 'Nay, Allah has overcome!' and shall go and break the cross. The Christians shall kill him, then the Muslims shall take up their arms and the two sides shall fall upon each other. Allah shall grant martyrdom to that group of Muslims. After that the Christians shall say to their leader: 'We shall relieve you of the Arabs,' and they shall gather up for the great battle (al-malhama). They shall come to you under eighty flags, each flag gathering12,000 troops." [= approx. 1 million] Narrated with sound chains from Dhu Mikhbar al-Najashi by Abu Dawud, Ahmad, Ibn Majah, Ibn Hibban, and al-Hakim who declared it sahih and al-Dhahabi concurred. See Shaykh Shu`ayb Arna'ut's documentation of this hadith in his edition of Sahih Ibn Hibban (15:101-103 #6708-6709).

Zu Mukhammar said I heard the Messenger of Allah ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ say, " You will make a Hudna (Truce Agreement) with the Romans (Europeans), and together you and them will invade an enemy (located) behind you. You will be victorious, take much booty, and you will leave. Then, you will camp on a hilly pasture. When one of the Romans will approach (the Muslim army), raise a cross and says "The Cross has won", one of the Muslims will get angry and take off the Cross. Then, the Romans will trick (bluff or deceive) you, and gather (prepare) for the Malhama (War). They will gather an army against you and come against you with eighty banners, each banner followed by 10,000 (or 12,000) men." (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, and Ibn Majah)

These aren't daydreams nor predictions. Russia's army amounts to approximately 1 million, do your own research


Thanks for the hadith. This is what I was looking for.
So according to the hadith Muslims and the russians will have an alliance. then together they will defeat the USA-NATO. Then the russians will trick the muslims and then there will be malhama between muslims and the russians. is it?

Then what will be the role of China ,India,Brazil in this malhama. @AllahisMyRefuge

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Unread post Re: Muslim alliance with Rum.
Allahu Alim, all we have is the hadith to focus on or it highlights what is most relevant to us Muslims concerning the present situation

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Surah Muzammil Verses 1-9



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Unread post Re: Muslim alliance with Rum.
it called settling one last score - victory islam.


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Unread post Re: Hadith about Muslim alliance with Rum.
An Examinee wrote:
AllahismyRefuge wrote:
The hadiths about the Malhama Kubrah: -

"You will make a firm truce with the al-Rum until you and they wage a campaign against an enemy that is attacking them. You will be granted victory and great spoils.

Then you will alight in a plain surrounded by hills. There, someone among the Christians shall say: 'The Cross has overcome!' whereupon someone among the Muslims shall say: 'Nay, Allah has overcome!' and shall go and break the cross. The Christians shall kill him, then the Muslims shall take up their arms and the two sides shall fall upon each other. Allah shall grant martyrdom to that group of Muslims. After that the Christians shall say to their leader: 'We shall relieve you of the Arabs,' and they shall gather up for the great battle (al-malhama). They shall come to you under eighty flags, each flag gathering12,000 troops." [= approx. 1 million] Narrated with sound chains from Dhu Mikhbar al-Najashi by Abu Dawud, Ahmad, Ibn Majah, Ibn Hibban, and al-Hakim who declared it sahih and al-Dhahabi concurred. See Shaykh Shu`ayb Arna'ut's documentation of this hadith in his edition of Sahih Ibn Hibban (15:101-103 #6708-6709).

Zu Mukhammar said I heard the Messenger of Allah ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ say, " You will make a Hudna (Truce Agreement) with the Romans (Europeans), and together you and them will invade an enemy (located) behind you. You will be victorious, take much booty, and you will leave. Then, you will camp on a hilly pasture. When one of the Romans will approach (the Muslim army), raise a cross and says "The Cross has won", one of the Muslims will get angry and take off the Cross. Then, the Romans will trick (bluff or deceive) you, and gather (prepare) for the Malhama (War). They will gather an army against you and come against you with eighty banners, each banner followed by 10,000 (or 12,000) men." (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, and Ibn Majah)

These aren't daydreams nor predictions. Russia's army amounts to approximately 1 million, do your own research


Thanks for the hadith. This is what I was looking for.
So according to the hadith Muslims and the russians will have an alliance. then together they will defeat the USA-NATO. Then the russians will trick the muslims and then there will be malhama between muslims and the russians. is it?

Then what will be the role of China ,India,Brazil in this malhama. @AllahisMyRefuge


Don't be so inpatient my dear brother just wait and watch. When time comes Allah (SWT) will reveal all the plans and final victory shell be of true believers.


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Unread post Re: Muslim alliance with Rum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG1BmqGW6wA

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Unread post Re: Muslim alliance with Rum.
I'm pretty certain the hadith Allahismyrefuge posted was widely accepted as a prophecy/reference to the war against communism in Afghanistan and the subsequent 'war on terrorism' which followed when the Taliban/Al-Qaeeda were discarded. The muslims had an alliance with America...you know the rest.

Now the roles are being reversed. You people are being manipulated by a certain 'sheikh' who uses these hadith without any real logic involved.

Why russia? 'because they are eastern orthodox christians' (sheikh imran hossein logic, of lack therof)
Even though the Marxist regime was hell bent on destroying Christianity.

On the other hand, we all know the role Zionist christians in America have played n orchastrating this war.

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Unread post Re: Muslim alliance with Rum.
Another reason why sheikh imran hossein is wrong

Sahih Muslim
(3) Abu Nadra reported:" We were in the company of Jabir b. 'Abdulldh that he said it may happen that the people of Iraq may not send their qafiz and dirhams (their measures of food stuff and their money). We said: Who would be respolisible for it? He said: The non_Arabs would prevt them. He again said: There is the possibility that the people of syria may not send their dinar and mudd. We said: Who would be responsible for it? He said This prevention would be made by the romans. He (Jabir b. Abdullab) kept quiet for a while and then reported Allah', s Messengdt (may peas be upon him) having said There would be a caliph in the last (period) of my Ummah who would freely give handfuls of wealth to thd people wiothout counting it. I said to Abu Nadra and Abu al-'Ala: DO you mean 'Umarb. 'Abd al-Aziz? They said: No (he would be Imam Mahdi.). (Book #041, Hadith #6961)



1) Iraq may not send their qafiz and dirhams (their measures of food stuff and their money). We said: Who would be respolisible for it? He said: The non_Arabs would prevt them

We know this refers to the sanctions placed on Iraq.

2) the people of syria may not send their dinar and mudd. We said: Who would be responsible for it? He said This prevention would be made by the romans.

yet the russians have been very vocal in their stance against any possible sanctions being placed on Syria. Clearly the russians are not 'romans' then?

3) i'm sure bro astralfairy will have a nice explanation proving how America is actually Russia and vice versa.

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Was rude.

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Unread post Re: Muslim alliance with Rum.
It's the intent, not the manner. Focus on the point.

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