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 Secterian Islam 
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Unread post Secterian Islam
Salam,


Note: Please read before commenting!

I would like you disqus secterian islam with you guys today. First of all, I would like to say something about me and my view on islam and religions in general.

I was born in a Southern Europe and as a kid I was visiting religious classes in which we were learning about Quran and sunnah. I was never really interested in religion because many of this stuff made no sense to me even at early age. I even got in conflict with imam and I was sent home one day, after that I decided to leave and teach myself everything I need to know, my parents were not angry and agreed because they knew I was not like many other kids. After that I was visiting mosque and all that but I was never really into religion until end of the high school when I started to study religions and occult, reading books etc...
This was like enlightenment time for me, I was following Quran but I decided not be belong to any religious sect.
Few days ago I actually noticed that I am some type of Gnostic person. I follow Quran, trying to understand Quran in my own way without influence of any scholars, schools or books except Quran.
For many muslims, maybe even you, I am Kaffir/Unbeliever but I dont care.

Now, few days ago I had discussion about islam with some sunni guy who said to me, basically that I'm not muslim because I dont love Prophet Muhammad more than myself. He said, "you have to love Muhammad more than your family or yourself, if not, you are not a muslim". I said nothing because this guy clearly have simple mind so argue with him is waste of time.
I'm 100% sure that Prophet never said that we should love him more than anyone else, he was a humble man, not some egoistic and selfish dictator.

Even when you show to sunni muslim a quote from the Quran which clearly states that division and sects are forbidden in TRUE islam, they say, "Hmmm, correct, but shia muslims are not muslims at all."
I mean - WTF??!!

Now every sect in modern islam claims they are only way to Heaven and all other sects and religions are wrong, same as christianity, accept Christ or burn in hell.

In Saudi Arabia you can still find scholars who teach flat earth theory and thats not sad, its sad that people actually believe this nonsense.

Seems like followers of secterian islam have no this ability called, CRITICAL THINKING. Just blindly follow and don't ask questions.

"He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein..." [42:13 Quran]

For example, punishment for people who commit adultery according to Quran is 100 lashes, it is clearly stated so that everyone can understand, yet secterian muslims claim that we should search for punishment in hadiths because thats the only way to understand Quran and punishment there is stoning to death, which is against Quran.

This is one of the reasons why I reject this type of Islam

What is your opinion?


Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:42 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
My dear brother, you should not think that we have come from Mars ! most of us had a period of ignorance or reluctance in our lives. An enlightenment period happened for me too. Guidance is an odd thing. We always need it, every moment. It is something mainly in hand of God.
Quran is amazing, but I wonder how you can think that Quran itself is enough that Muslims get rid of sects !
No, it is impossible. Existence of sects is a reality. This is not something new. This is history of monotheistic religions.

the jews say the nazarenes are not on anything, and the nazarenes say it is the jews who are not on anything. yet they both read the book. and those who do not know say like their saying. allah will judge between them their disputes on the day of resurrection. Quran 2:113

It was predicted by Muhammad PBUH too, that Ummah would divide to many sects. Religion of God is always one, so existence of sects itself is a sign of a problem and disease. Logically and rationally only one path exists, the straight path.
So regarding sects we can not do many things unless to remain united on the main issues and for the benefit of Ummah but we should study and think to find the truth in our personal life.
Is not it odd that all solutions lead to Mahdi !

Since you are not someone who accepts anything blindly, I encourage you to learn Arabic of course if you have not learned yet. Quran is amazing, Quran explains itself, some verses explain other verses but you need Arabic in order that you can taste Quran perfectly.
Of course there are many unanswered questions in Quran too, questions that Quran itself says we can find the answers from Muhammad PBUH, so we need hadithes.

So I offer you to learn Arabic and continue your journey, study Quran, history and hadith books. And about love, there is always a misunderstanding, sometimes we think selfishness is love and sometimes we think love is selfishness.
But I would say religion is nothing but knowledge and love. When you know more, you love more, maybe a feeling that you want to devote whatever you have and not to get anything in return. But God is far more merciful that he prevents rewards from his servants.

(saying): 'we feed you only desirous of the face of allah; we seek of you neither recompense nor thanks, (76:9)
for we fear from our lord a stern, frownful day. (76:10)

Frown is the big punishment for lovers !

There is a famous statement from Ali which reads :
I did not worship You for the fear of chastisement or for the desire towards heaven; rather, I worshiped You because I found You worthy of being worshipped.

According to Quran, a Muslim and a believer are two distinct things. And all believers are not alike. Belief has several ranks.

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Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:31 pm
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
No one has right to judge anyone, but one must point to his brothers and sisters errors. There are five pillars of islam and the first one is the declaration in belief in Allah as the One and only God and that Mohamed (pbuh) is his final messenger. If you only believe in Quran then ask yourself if the first pillar of islam is complete or not.

As for to love the prophet pbuh more than yourself, your parents and anything in this world, is one to be a true believer (Mumin), the word used is (mumin and not muslim).

As for those who consider shias as kaffirs, one must ask what are the pillars of islam in shia belief? of course same as the sunni believe. The difference between a sunni and a shia is not here...but anyone who believes Allah to be the One and only God and Mohamed his final messenger is muslim and anyone who says 'no' then must wait until he or she faces Allah. No one can judge anyone. Reasoning with someone does not mean judging, it should be a dialogue in good manner.


Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:00 pm
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
maes wrote:
My dear brother, you should not think that we have come from Mars ! most of us had a period of ignorance or reluctance in our lives. An enlightenment period happened for me too. Guidance is an odd thing. We always need it, every moment. It is something mainly in hand of God.
Quran is amazing, but I wonder how you can think that Quran itself is enough that Muslims get rid of sects !
No, it is impossible. Existence of sects is a reality. This is not something new. This is history of monotheistic religions.

the jews say the nazarenes are not on anything, and the nazarenes say it is the jews who are not on anything. yet they both read the book. and those who do not know say like their saying. allah will judge between them their disputes on the day of resurrection. Quran 2:113

It was predicted by Muhammad PBUH too, that Ummah would divide to many sects. Religion of God is always one, so existence of sects itself is a sign of a problem and disease. Logically and rationally only one path exists, the straight path.
So regarding sects we can not do many things unless to remain united on the main issues and for the benefit of Ummah but we should study and think to find the truth in our personal life.
Is not it odd that all solutions lead to Mahdi !

Since you are not someone who accepts anything blindly, I encourage you to learn Arabic of course if you have not learned yet. Quran is amazing, Quran explains itself, some verses explain other verses but you need Arabic in order that you can taste Quran perfectly.
Of course there are many unanswered questions in Quran too, questions that Quran itself says we can find the answers from Muhammad PBUH, so we need hadithes.

So I offer you to learn Arabic and continue your journey, study Quran, history and hadith books. And about love, there is always a misunderstanding, sometimes we think selfishness is love and sometimes we think love is selfishness.
But I would say religion is nothing but knowledge and love. When you know more, you love more, maybe a feeling that you want to devote whatever you have and not to get anything in return. But God is far more merciful that he prevents rewards from his servants.

(saying): 'we feed you only desirous of the face of allah; we seek of you neither recompense nor thanks, (76:9)
for we fear from our lord a stern, frownful day. (76:10)

Frown is the big punishment for lovers !

There is a famous statement from Ali which reads :
I did not worship You for the fear of chastisement or for the desire towards heaven; rather, I worshiped You because I found You worthy of being worshipped.

According to Quran, a Muslim and a believer are two distinct things. And all believers are not alike. Belief has several ranks.


Good reply, anyway, I have been reading Quran 3. times in a row in order to understand it better and I came to conclusion that Quran is not about religion, it actually discredit popular religious beliefs of mainstream religions including secterian islam.
Quran is about spirituality and guidance for entire mankind, I guess people are too weak to understand real meaning of it, thats why religions were created in the first place.
When it comes to your question about my arabic, well, I dont speak arabic and atm I have no time to learn it, maybe in the future but I use different types of translators and translations and I have been learning arabic alphabet as a kid.

LeMaghrebin wrote:
If you only believe in Quran then ask yourself if the first pillar of islam is complete or not.


You just said that Quran is not complete?

And We had certainly brought them a Book which We detailed by knowledge - as guidance and mercy to a people who believe.[Quran 7:52]

Salam


Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:57 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
Sonny wrote:
LeMaghrebin wrote:
If you only believe in Quran then ask yourself if the first pillar of islam is complete or not.


You just said that Quran is not complete?



You misunderstood me, I am saying if someone only believes in Quran and not in ahadith that means one does not obey the messenger pbuh which makes his shahadah incomplete.


Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:14 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
If you a re a truth seeker, then I salute you, and encourage you to remain on this till death comes to you.

On the Day of Judgement, you are judged on whether or not you are a genuine seeker of truth, and not if you actually followed the 100% real authentic organic Islam. Within Islamic theology, we have groups of people who are called those to whom the truth was not completely revealed - their judgement is with Allah (swt).

If truth was shown to you and you failed to accept it - then judgement will be difficult.

You are responsible to be able to stand in front of Allah (swt) and genuinely say, I did what I could to find the truth - and I believed in the truths I found - and had I been proven wrong, or another truth had been revealed to me, I would have followed.

As for Sunni/Shia, they both have same core ideology - they are in effect - different schools of thought within Islam, so a Sunni who turns Shia or vice versa has not changed religion. If you want to learn more - then no need for me to go into details. All you need is to look into the daughter of the Prophet Lady Fatima, and her sermon in the Mosque of the Prophet when she confronted some of the sahabah, and the attack on her house, and how she died - and choose who to follow.

As for the Qur'an only ideology, it is clearly mistaken. No need for me to go into details. Look up Quranists and the refutations of this ideology and it should be clear. However, you are correct in that there are thousands upon thousands (in fact, the majority) of narrations which are fabricated. Nevertheless, Qur'an only is wrong.

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From Imam Ali (pbuhaf):

"He (Imam Mahdi - pbuhaf) will direct desires towards guidance while people will have turned guidance towards their desires, and he will turn their views to the Quran while the people will have turned the Quran to their views." [Peaks of Eloquence]

YOU MUST READ THIS - The WILL of our Holy Messenger!
The 5 Definite Signs
How to create a fake Imam Mahdi


Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:18 pm
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
sayyid_haamid wrote:
As for the Qur'an only ideology, it is clearly mistaken. No need for me to go into details. Look up Quranists and the refutations of this ideology and it should be clear. However, you are correct in that there are thousands upon thousands (in fact, the majority) of narrations which are fabricated. Nevertheless, Qur'an only is wrong.


I never said I'm Quranist, thats just another sect within islam. What I wanna say is that, secterian islam is based on hadiths, more than on Quran, I gave example above, some of these so called "islamic" laws go directly against Quran and some laws looks like they were just taken from Judeo-Christian traditions (example: stoning to death)

Most of these so called authentic hadiths looks wrong, lets take one example:

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death.


Now, according to Quran, both man and woman who commited adultery should be punished with 100 lashes each. I don't know if Prophet was breaking rules he was following or that last part was added by people later or this hadith is fake and this event never happend. Its up to individual to decide.
If I have a doubt than I don't buy it.

Also, I don't reject hadiths, maybe many of them are true but I dont accept them blindly as well.


LeMaghrebin wrote:
Sonny wrote:
LeMaghrebin wrote:
If you only believe in Quran then ask yourself if the first pillar of islam is complete or not.


You just said that Quran is not complete?



You misunderstood me, I am saying if someone only believes in Quran and not in ahadith that means one does not obey the messenger pbuh which makes his shahadah incomplete.


Read what I wrote above, it will answer your question.


Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:16 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
Sonny wrote:

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death.


Now, according to Quran, both man and woman who commited adultery should be punished with 100 lashes each. I don't know if Prophet was breaking rules he was following or that last part was added by people later or this hadith is fake and this event never happend. Its up to individual to decide.
If I have a doubt than I don't buy it.





Tafseer Surat Abasa (1-11)

{ عَبَسَ وَتَوَلَّىٰ }
1-And from his narration on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah's saying (He frowned): '(He frowned) He says: Muhammad (pbuh) showed a stern face (and turned away) his face


{ أَن جَآءَهُ ٱلأَعْمَىٰ }
2-(Because the blind man came unto him) when 'Abdullah Ibn Umm Maktum came to him. His real name is 'Abdullah Ibn Shurayh. Umm Maktum was his father's mother. What happened is that the Prophet (pbuh) was sitting with a group of men among the nobles of Quraysh, among whom were his uncle al-'Abbas Ibn 'Abd al-Muttalib, Umayyah Ibn Khalaf al-Jumahi and Safwan Ibn Umayyah, who were at that time disbelievers. The Prophet (pbuh) was admonishing and inviting them to Islam when Ibn Maktum came to him and said: “O Messenger of Allah! Teach me of that which Allah has taught you”. The Prophet (pbuh) turned his face from him because he was busy with these people. When this happened Allah revealed: he frowned and turned away because the blind man came unto him.

{ وَمَا يُدْرِيكَ لَعَلَّهُ يَزَّكَّىٰ }
3-(What could inform thee) O Muhammad (but that he might) i.e. the blind man (grow (in grace)) became righteous through the admonitions of the Qur'an


{ أَوْ يَذَّكَّرُ فَتَنفَعَهُ ٱلذِّكْرَىٰ }
4-(Or take heed) by means of the Qur'an (and so the reminder) by means of the Qur'an (might avail him?) It is also said that this means: how do you know O Muhammad, whether or not he becomes righteous and whether or not he benefits from the admonitions of the Qur'an.

{ أَمَّا مَنِ ٱسْتَغْنَىٰ }
5-(As for him who thinketh himself independent) of Allah, i.e. the three men mentioned above,

{ فَأَنتَ لَهُ تَصَدَّىٰ }
6-(Unto him thou payest regard) you turn your face to them.

{ وَمَا عَلَيْكَ أَلاَّ يَزَّكَّىٰ }
7-(Yet it is not thy concern if he grow not (in grace)) it is not your concern if these three men do not believe in Allah's divine Oneness.

{ وَأَمَّا مَن جَآءَكَ يَسْعَىٰ }
8-(But as for him who cometh unto thee with earnest purpose) hastening for goodness

{ وَهُوَ يَخْشَىٰ }
9-(And hath fear) of Allah, and is also a Muslim; this is because Ibn Umm Maktum had accepted Islam before this incident,

{ فَأَنتَ عَنْهُ تَلَهَّىٰ }
10-(From him thou) O Muhammad (art distracted) being busy with those three men.

{ كَلاَّ إِنَّهَا تَذْكِرَةٌ }
11-(Nay) do not do this; He says: do not turn to those who think themselves independent of Allah and turn away from he who fears Allah. After this reminder, the Prophet (pbuh) used to honour Ibn Umm Maktum and treat him well, (but verily it) this surah (is an Admonishment) from Allah both for the rich and the poor,

----------
Tafseer Surat Abasa (1-11) is an example of how Allah swt warned the Prophet saws because of his behavior.
If the Prophet saws made a mistake with the penalty for adultery, I believe that the same would happen. Because the Prophet himself said, that he could make a mistake in everyday life but never, never in terms of faith and regulations faith.

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Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:49 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
:salaam:


Quote:
He said, "you have to love Muhammad more than your family or yourself, if not, you are not a muslim". I said nothing because this guy clearly have simple mind so argue with him is waste of time. I'm 100% sure that Prophet never said that we should love him more than anyone else


Quote:
I have been reading Quran 3. times in a row in order to understand it better


Quote:
No one has right to judge anyone, but one must point to his brothers and sisters errors



Quote:
قُلْ إِن كَانَ آبَاؤُكُمْ وَأَبْنَآؤُكُمْ وَإِخْوَانُكُمْ وَأَزْوَاجُكُمْ وَعَشِيرَتُكُمْ وَأَمْوَالٌ اقْتَرَفْتُمُوهَا وَتِجَارَةٌ تَخْشَوْنَ كَسَادَهَا وَمَسَاكِنُ تَرْضَوْنَهَا أَحَبَّ إِلَيْكُم مِّنَ اللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَجِهَادٍ فِي سَبِيلِهِ فَتَرَبَّصُواْ حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ اللّهُ بِأَمْرِهِ وَاللّهُ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْفَاسِقِينَ

Allah says, "Say: 'If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that ye have gained; the commerce in which ye fear a decline: or the dwellings in which ye delight - are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious." (9:24)

This is an Explicit "Nass (definite proof)" in Quran that Allah and his Prophet (Peace be upon him) should be dearer to us than everything in the world i.e. our wealth, children, parents etc... Some people use this verse in regards to Jihad only but they forget that loving Prophet (Peace be upon him) is mentioned before that, hence even Jihad without the love of Allah and his Prophet (Peace be upon him) would "not be" Jihad in cause of Allah, rather it could lead one to hell fire instead.

وَمَن يُطِعِ اللّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ مَعَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللّهُ عَلَيْهِم مِّنَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَالصِّدِّيقِينَ وَالشُّهَدَاءِ وَالصَّالِحِينَ وَحَسُنَ أُولَـئِكَ رَفِيقًا

Allah says: "All who obey Allah and the apostle are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of Allah,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship"(4:69)


Hadith #1

Narated By Anas : The Prophet said "None of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father, his children and all mankind."

Reference

►Bukhari Volume 001, Book 002, Hadith Number 014.

Hadith #2

Narated By Anas : The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:

1. The one to whom Allah and His Apostle becomes dearer than anything else.
2. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.
3. Who hates to revert to Atheism (disbelief) as he hates to be thrown into the fire."

Reference

►Bukhari Volume 001, Book 002, Hadith Number 015.

up to Hadith #19.

http://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=113



:allahuak2: :allahuak2: :allahuak2:

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Sixty Lessons/Commands from the Quran
Did They Then Feel Secure Against the Plan of Allah?
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The Master of Invocations for Forgiveness
Our Skin Speaks ! SubhanAllah!
Not Losing Hope In The Dua’s That We Make
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I Love You For The Sake Of Allah


Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:05 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
bosnevie wrote:
Tafseer Surat Abasa (1-11) is an example of how Allah swt warned the Prophet saws because of his behavior.
If the Prophet saws made a mistake with the penalty for adultery, I believe that the same would happen. Because the Prophet himself said, that he could make a mistake in everyday life but never, never in terms of faith and regulations faith.


You are saying that Prophet did not made mistake and he actually ordered for this woman to be brutally killed and why woman was killed and man did not if this is true? We are all equal under Creator, sin is sin, both, man and woman should be equally responsible, thats why Quran orders 100 lashes EACH, not male 50 female 150.

Not just that you said that Muhammad pbuh broke Quranic law but you are saying that sin is not equal for man and woman, which is one more reason why this hadith is false.


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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
@UnrealPrince

It really depends how you understand verse 9:24.

Your understanding of that verse is like: "If hadith says that I should kill someone because Prophet said I will do it because Quran says that I should love Prophet more than my life or life of my family."

My understanding of that verse is very different. Submission to Creator and respecting Message He sent through Prophet has nothing to do with worship of Prophet Muhammad pbuh which most of the muslims unknowingly do.


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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
My dear brother, you are discussing a verdict of jurisprudence.
None here are qualified jurists to give you a satisfactory answer.
Better to go to a jurist to ask them.

But you are correct in that sectarian problems originate from fabricated narrations, thanks to the rulers of Bani Umayyah.

As for being kafir if you don't love the prophet more than your self, is simply not true but it is a requirement for the better levels of faith.

_________________
From Imam Ali (pbuhaf):

"He (Imam Mahdi - pbuhaf) will direct desires towards guidance while people will have turned guidance towards their desires, and he will turn their views to the Quran while the people will have turned the Quran to their views." [Peaks of Eloquence]

YOU MUST READ THIS - The WILL of our Holy Messenger!
The 5 Definite Signs
How to create a fake Imam Mahdi


Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:51 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
Sonny wrote:
bosnevie wrote:
Tafseer Surat Abasa (1-11) is an example of how Allah swt warned the Prophet saws because of his behavior.
If the Prophet saws made a mistake with the penalty for adultery, I believe that the same would happen. Because the Prophet himself said, that he could make a mistake in everyday life but never, never in terms of faith and regulations faith.


You are saying that Prophet did not made mistake and he actually ordered for this woman to be brutally killed and why woman was killed and man did not if this is true? We are all equal under Creator, sin is sin, both, man and woman should be equally responsible, thats why Quran orders 100 lashes EACH, not male 50 female 150.

Not just that you said that Muhammad pbuh broke Quranic law but you are saying that sin is not equal for man and woman, which is one more reason why this hadith is false.



No, I am saying: Prophet saws did not make a mistake with the penalty for adultery. He did not make mistakes when it came to islam, iman.

But, just like Sayyid said: None here are qualified jurists to give you a satisfactory answer....You have to search more, and I hope you`ll find the answers.

:salaam:

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Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:52 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
:salaam:

Quote:
Your understanding of that verse is like: "If hadith says that I should kill someone because Prophet said I will do it because Quran says that I should love Prophet more than my life or life of my family."

:crazy: :shock:

Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward; 17:9



Quote:
My understanding of that verse is very different. Submission to Creator and respecting Message He sent through Prophet has nothing to do with worship of Prophet Muhammad pbuh which most of the muslims unknowingly do.


:roll:

Say thou, [O Prophet:] “I am but a mortal like you. It has been revealed to me that your God is the One God: go, then, straight towards Him and seek His forgiveness!” And woe unto those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him (41:6)

“Say: “None in the heavens and the earth knows the Ghaib (Unseen) except Allaah, nor can they perceive when they shall be resurrected” 27:65

Quote:
“To deem a thousand disbelievers Muslim is safer with God than to deem one Muslim a disbeliever.”
– Imam Abu Hanifah


:allahuak3: :allahuak3: :allahuak3:

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Sixty Lessons/Commands from the Quran
Did They Then Feel Secure Against the Plan of Allah?
Istikharaah The Guidance Prayer
Salaat al-Tawbah (the Prayer of Repentance)
The Master of Invocations for Forgiveness
Our Skin Speaks ! SubhanAllah!
Not Losing Hope In The Dua’s That We Make
Leave This Dunya Behind
Too Sinful To Be Forgiven?
I Love You For The Sake Of Allah


Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:06 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
bosnevie wrote:
You have to search more, and I hope you`ll find the answers.

:salaam:


:wsalaam:

Nasao sam ja odgovore na svoja pitanja samo me zanima sta drugi misle i u kolikoj mjeri se slazu s mojim stajalistem. Lijep pozdrav :angel:


UnrealPrince wrote:
:salaam:

Quote:
Your understanding of that verse is like: "If hadith says that I should kill someone because Prophet said I will do it because Quran says that I should love Prophet more than my life or life of my family."

:crazy: :shock:

Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward; 17:9



Quote:
My understanding of that verse is very different. Submission to Creator and respecting Message He sent through Prophet has nothing to do with worship of Prophet Muhammad pbuh which most of the muslims unknowingly do.


:roll:

Say thou, [O Prophet:] “I am but a mortal like you. It has been revealed to me that your God is the One God: go, then, straight towards Him and seek His forgiveness!” And woe unto those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him (41:6)

“Say: “None in the heavens and the earth knows the Ghaib (Unseen) except Allaah, nor can they perceive when they shall be resurrected” 27:65

Quote:
“To deem a thousand disbelievers Muslim is safer with God than to deem one Muslim a disbeliever.”
– Imam Abu Hanifah


:allahuak3: :allahuak3: :allahuak3:


Thanks you and thank to all others who posted what they think, it will help me to understand other muslims and their views better.

Peace


Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:44 am
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
We join spokes together in a wheel, but it is the center hole that makes the wagon move



peace, one luv my bruh.

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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
Salaam:

Islam is a simple Path explained in the Qur'an. People have sought to formalize practice of Islam so we have rituals explained in the hadith. Whether Almighty SWT has an issue with particular way one prays in terms of motions for example, I think He would have made it clear in the Qur'an. On the other hand, hadiths seek to explained in detail certain religious rituals that may have not been mentioned in the Qur'an because it was understood how things were done in the past. In that sense hadiths are a good guide, not necessarily interpreters of the Qur'an. However, hadiths borrow a lot from non-Islamic traditions. For instance, the honor killings and capital punishment for adultery. Both of those are found in the Old Testament but not the Noble Qur'an. Yet, Arab Imams have made the OT laws part of Islam even though theyclaim Christians & Jews have corrupted the Bible. If that is so then how can one trust a corrupted source that contains some truth? And how do you know which of it id true? You compare it to the Qur'an as the guide. And Qur'an does not preach honor killings. Hadiths should be judged by the Qur'an in matters of Law and undisputable Qur'anic teachings. Hadiths cannot judge the Qur'an, rather it can only teach how to fulfill Qur'an commandements.

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The Noble Qur'an: "Allah does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither fought against your faith nor driven you out of your homes. In fact Allah loves the equitable." Surah 60, ayat 8


Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:50 pm
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
Amica wrote:
Salaam:

Islam is a simple Path explained in the Qur'an. People have sought to formalize practice of Islam so we have rituals explained in the hadith. Whether Almighty SWT has an issue with particular way one prays in terms of motions for example, I think He would have made it clear in the Qur'an. On the other hand, hadiths seek to explained in detail certain religious rituals that may have not been mentioned in the Qur'an because it was understood how things were done in the past. In that sense hadiths are a good guide, not necessarily interpreters of the Qur'an. However, hadiths borrow a lot from non-Islamic traditions. For instance, the honor killings and capital punishment for adultery. Both of those are found in the Old Testament but not the Noble Qur'an. Yet, Arab Imams have made the OT laws part of Islam even though theyclaim Christians & Jews have corrupted the Bible. If that is so then how can one trust a corrupted source that contains some truth? And how do you know which of it id true? You compare it to the Qur'an as the guide. And Qur'an does not preach honor killings. Hadiths should be judged by the Qur'an in matters of Law and undisputable Qur'anic teachings. Hadiths cannot judge the Qur'an, rather it can only teach how to fulfill Qur'an commandements.


^ This :thumbup:

molvicorleone wrote:
We join spokes together in a wheel, but it is the center hole that makes the wagon move



peace, one luv my bruh.


:barak:


Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:50 pm
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Unread post Re: Secterian Islam
bosnevie wrote:
Sonny wrote:

Volume 3, Book 49, Number 860:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death.


Now, according to Quran, both man and woman who commited adultery should be punished with 100 lashes each. I don't know if Prophet was breaking rules he was following or that last part was added by people later or this hadith is fake and this event never happend. Its up to individual to decide.
If I have a doubt than I don't buy it.





Tafseer Surat Abasa (1-11)

{ عَبَسَ وَتَوَلَّىٰ }
1-And from his narration on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah's saying (He frowned): '(He frowned) He says: Muhammad (pbuh) showed a stern face (and turned away) his face


{ أَن جَآءَهُ ٱلأَعْمَىٰ }
2-(Because the blind man came unto him) when 'Abdullah Ibn Umm Maktum came to him. His real name is 'Abdullah Ibn Shurayh. Umm Maktum was his father's mother. What happened is that the Prophet (pbuh) was sitting with a group of men among the nobles of Quraysh, among whom were his uncle al-'Abbas Ibn 'Abd al-Muttalib, Umayyah Ibn Khalaf al-Jumahi and Safwan Ibn Umayyah, who were at that time disbelievers. The Prophet (pbuh) was admonishing and inviting them to Islam when Ibn Maktum came to him and said: “O Messenger of Allah! Teach me of that which Allah has taught you”. The Prophet (pbuh) turned his face from him because he was busy with these people. When this happened Allah revealed: he frowned and turned away because the blind man came unto him.

{ وَمَا يُدْرِيكَ لَعَلَّهُ يَزَّكَّىٰ }
3-(What could inform thee) O Muhammad (but that he might) i.e. the blind man (grow (in grace)) became righteous through the admonitions of the Qur'an


{ أَوْ يَذَّكَّرُ فَتَنفَعَهُ ٱلذِّكْرَىٰ }
4-(Or take heed) by means of the Qur'an (and so the reminder) by means of the Qur'an (might avail him?) It is also said that this means: how do you know O Muhammad, whether or not he becomes righteous and whether or not he benefits from the admonitions of the Qur'an.

{ أَمَّا مَنِ ٱسْتَغْنَىٰ }
5-(As for him who thinketh himself independent) of Allah, i.e. the three men mentioned above,

{ فَأَنتَ لَهُ تَصَدَّىٰ }
6-(Unto him thou payest regard) you turn your face to them.

{ وَمَا عَلَيْكَ أَلاَّ يَزَّكَّىٰ }
7-(Yet it is not thy concern if he grow not (in grace)) it is not your concern if these three men do not believe in Allah's divine Oneness.

{ وَأَمَّا مَن جَآءَكَ يَسْعَىٰ }
8-(But as for him who cometh unto thee with earnest purpose) hastening for goodness

{ وَهُوَ يَخْشَىٰ }
9-(And hath fear) of Allah, and is also a Muslim; this is because Ibn Umm Maktum had accepted Islam before this incident,

{ فَأَنتَ عَنْهُ تَلَهَّىٰ }
10-(From him thou) O Muhammad (art distracted) being busy with those three men.

{ كَلاَّ إِنَّهَا تَذْكِرَةٌ }
11-(Nay) do not do this; He says: do not turn to those who think themselves independent of Allah and turn away from he who fears Allah. After this reminder, the Prophet (pbuh) used to honour Ibn Umm Maktum and treat him well, (but verily it) this surah (is an Admonishment) from Allah both for the rich and the poor,

----------
Tafseer Surat Abasa (1-11) is an example of how Allah swt warned the Prophet saws because of his behavior.
If the Prophet saws made a mistake with the penalty for adultery, I believe that the same would happen. Because the Prophet himself said, that he could make a mistake in everyday life but never, never in terms of faith and regulations faith.

My dear sister
Although there are hadithes which say that person was Muhammad PBUH, but such behaviours are far from Muhammad PBUH.
Yes Tafseers say that was Muhammad PBUH but there are some tafseers who debunk that. Why !? because it is somehow contrary to Quran. Quran does not contradict itself.

"""surely, you (prophet muhammad) are of a great morality. Quran 68:4"""

This verse is in the Surah of Ghalam (Pen) and this Surah and verse is revealed before the Surah of Abas. So Muhammad PBUH never ever frowned to a believer. This is far from Muhammad and it seems to be contrary to Quran. Even an ordinary aware person does not do such things let alone Muhammad PBUH who Quran says about him the verse 68:4 already.

Those hadithes can not be true because they are contrary to Quran.

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اَلسَّلامُ عَلى رَبيعِ الاَنامِ
Peace be upon whom he is the spring of nations.


Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:22 am
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