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 Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms 
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
I had to register to answer. I began using magic mushrooms and my believe grow much more. I think you can clearly say that tryptamines don't fog the mind. Moreso the opposite. It opens the mind to understand more about life. When my believe was before 100% it is 500% now.

If you try it yourself will know yourself if it is haraam or not. But just don't throw it in one bag with other "drugs" like alcohol or nicotine. Go ahead inform yourself. Biologically psychedelics showed to strenghten the synapses. Psychologically they showed how terminal ill people lost their fear of death. Why do you think they lost it? Why do many drug addicts stop using them after having a religious experience?
What could be the reason someone loses fear of death and gets way more religious and certain about religions? What do you think happens in their mindspace?

I think it is a gift by allah to open our eyes on non materialistic life. We live in in a capitalistic materialistic world. It's easy to forget.

Also there are no people who get addicted to mushrooms. Moreso the opposite. They want to take a break and enjoy their lifes with family and friends.


I will favorite this topic and answer your questions in a scientific way if you want. First I studied, then I tried it myself.

Let's start this simply. You guys talked about DMT and Magic Mushrooms. First off: What is mainly active in the Magic Mushroom? Chemically it is 4-PO-DMT. When you eat it the stomach hydrolizes it to 4-OH-DMT. So Mushrooms are just 4 substituted DMT.

DMT
4-PO-DMT

There are quite some more Typtamines now in science like 4-HO-MET etc.

They are ACTIVELY transported through the brain barrier. So the brain wants it and has vehicles to transport it to the serotonergenic receptors. The main important receptor for psychedelics is called 5-ht2a.

DMT is in ALL mammals. So also in us. EVERYONE has DMT in trace amounts in the body. DMT doesnt produce a long tolerance. DMT is NOT produced in the brain. The enzymes have only been found in the lungs in the moment. It is also in some grass sorts and many plants.

Psychedelics are forbidden for just like 60 years. How do you think there are even religions in the amazonas where noone sees other people. Even those people have religions.

There are many studies going on at the moment. Do you want to make plain research? Go ahead. There are organizations like MAPS.org and the Heffter Research Institute who make studies and the results are very good at the moment. Therapy resitant people got helped etc. Don't you think they deserve help?

Ibogaine treatment showed to help heroin and other drugs addicts stop their addiction. MDMA helped Post traumatic stress disorder patients. It is medicine, not for the body but the mind.

There are some studies which show in which way some areas get active while using mushrooms and they showed that they don't disable areas but actually more areas are active.

There are long term effects. You become a nice person.

Two questions for both sides:
For the people who used psychedelics and maybe had enlightening experiences: Do you think this could be haraam? :)

For the people who just plainly say it is haraam: Did you ever try it on your own?

Allah gave me my mind to inform myself and decide myself in such situations. Scientific medically and psychlogically it is proofed to be good for us. From my own experience it is not even questionable. Me for myself I know it's not haraam.

It's always nice to see people who use them in a religious way.

Why do you think people call it mind EXPANSION? :D

Another intersting question is: Would you think meditation is haraam? If so, watch this:

Watch on vimeo.com


If you don't want to (Why do you even read the topic if you don't want proper information?) watch the video: They called a student of dalailama if i understood correct and they also checked the brain activitiy of the best meditator. The pattern was the same as on Psylocibin.

You have to remember my brothers. It is just a simple molecule. There are not video files in molecules or anything like that :D It is your brain after all.

Please remember my brother. When it comes to drugs there is much desinformation. You are at the time of information. Use google, read scientific studies. You can also read trip reports but they nowhere describe what is really going on as there are no words to describe. There is also no way to understand without making the experience.

One more interesting thing which I considered for myself while deciding if haraam or not: There are evidence that magic mushrooms were used by cultures 8000 B.C. People always knew about this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen# ... cal_record

So for example pork is forbidden strictly in exact words but psychedelic mushrooms not. Sufis also exist and other cultures in the arabic area.


Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:17 am
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
as soon as anyone notices this, they're going to answer back saying its haraam because its an intoxicant, since that argument hasn't been refuted on this page, and nobody can read back further in the topic. so, care to explain that one scientifically?

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Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:13 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Also the active ingredient in mushrooms is Psilocybin, not 4-OH-DMT.

Psilocybin's pharmacological name is C-12H-17N-2O-4P


Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:30 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Well what did I say?
Quote:
What is mainly active in the Magic Mushroom? Chemically it is 4-PO-DMT. When you eat it the stomach hydrolizes it to 4-OH-DMT.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin

4-Phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamin

So short 4-PO-DMT. In the stomach it becomes 4-OH-DMT.

Quote:
Psilocybin ( /ˌsɪləˈsaɪbɪn/ SIL-ə-SY-bin; also known as psilocybine or 4-PO-DMT) is a prodrug for the classical hallucinogen compound psilocin, or 4-HO-DMT (4-hydroxyl-dimethyltryptamine), the active metabolite of psilocybin, responsible for the psychoactive effects of the drug.


My english is not very good. I don't really understand your question peanutqpublic :oops:
I'm not quite sure.

Quote:
as soon as anyone notices this, they're going to answer back saying its haraam because its an intoxicant


How do they know that. How many times did those persons try that? I guess none because THEY THINK it is haraam and I have no problem with others way of thinking. Nobody is perfect.


Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:07 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Erhan wrote:
Well what did I say?
Quote:
What is mainly active in the Magic Mushroom? Chemically it is 4-PO-DMT. When you eat it the stomach hydrolizes it to 4-OH-DMT.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin

4-Phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamin

So short 4-PO-DMT. In the stomach it becomes 4-OH-DMT.

Yeah but chemically it's C-12H-17N-2O-4P, 4-OH-DMT is just it's 'name' based on it's chemical structure. Don't get the two mixed up.


Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:30 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Well, okay I understand and know that. One is Psylocybin and the other Psylocin. I'm talking about 4-HO-MET, 4-PO-DMT etc because it's way easier to understand as most of the people here are no chemists :P

Ah okay I understand, you are refering to the "chemically" I wrote. Okay you are right. I just meant that it is the active ingedrient.
Sorry for my bad english.


Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:38 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Nah it's cool, English isn't the primary language of a good percentage of this forum.


Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:43 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Hey, welcome Erhan! Another educated opinion we need on this thread!

Erhan wrote:
My english is not very good. I don't really understand your question peanutqpublic
I'm not quite sure.


I think Peanut means that maybe you should explain to the Anti-Magic Mushroom people why Magic Mushrooms are not an intoxicant (forbidden in Hadith).

And your English is not that bad, don't worry.


Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:03 am
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
I also have a question: can you pray when you are on Magic Mushrooms? Does it affect short term memory?


Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:10 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
No, it doesn't.


Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:38 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Selam!

Well I think one would pray automatically in those moments. When I talk about those "moments" I mean enlightening, religious moments like "level 5" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedeli ... ce#Level_5

For me I say it is halal BUT it is NOT a toy. Also it doesn't make you happy just by giving you joy. It's more like "I'm glad to KNOW".
There is quite a difference between believing into something and knowing something. :P

Brothers you still have to understand the others. When it comes to drugs, it's all about desinformation. Slowly science makes new studies again to understand. When people think about mushrooms they just think about drugs like heroin. Most of those people wouldn't even inform themselves. But it's no problem. Some people know about it, some doesn't.
But remember one thing. Lieing is never halal. If you don't know about something, don't just throw in things you don't know about.

About short-term memory. Clearly no. Actually biologically psychedelics showed to strengthening synapses.
Image
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... depression

Some more interesting things:
A study earlier this year by Charles Grob at the University of California, Los Angeles, showed that people with end-stage cancer had significantly less anxiety and better mood after receiving psilocybin
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/conten ... ct/68/1/71

A participant talks about the study:
Watch on blip.tv


I still let this question open. Why do you think people stop fearing death after this? What do you think they see? Why do those people get more religious? Why do they love life?
I have a former atheist friend who got religious after it's usage.
You don't have to answer this but just THINK what they could have seen ;)

Be safe brothers!


Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:29 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Erhan wrote:
Selam!

Well I think one would pray automatically in those moments. When I talk about those "moments" I mean enlightening, religious moments like "level 5" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedeli ... ce#Level_5

For me I say it is halal BUT it is NOT a toy. Also it doesn't make you happy just by giving you joy. It's more like "I'm glad to KNOW".
There is quite a difference between believing into something and knowing something. :P

Brothers you still have to understand the others. When it comes to drugs, it's all about desinformation. Slowly science makes new studies again to understand. When people think about mushrooms they just think about drugs like heroin. Most of those people wouldn't even inform themselves. But it's no problem. Some people know about it, some doesn't.
But remember one thing. Lieing is never halal. If you don't know about something, don't just throw in things you don't know about.

About short-term memory. Clearly no. Actually biologically psychedelics showed to strengthening synapses.
Image
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... depression

Some more interesting things:
A study earlier this year by Charles Grob at the University of California, Los Angeles, showed that people with end-stage cancer had significantly less anxiety and better mood after receiving psilocybin
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/conten ... ct/68/1/71

A participant talks about the study:
Watch on blip.tv


I still let this question open. Why do you think people stop fearing death after this? What do you think they see? Why do those people get more religious? Why do they love life?
I have a former atheist friend who got religious after it's usage.
You don't have to answer this but just THINK what they could have seen ;)

Be safe brothers!


I read on a Magic Mushrooms site that you should take Magic Mushrooms once a month at most. Is that because too much is bad for you, while moderately it strengthens your synapses?

I've also known atheists who've become religious because they've experienced Magic Mushrooms. I can't see why it's considered haram when it opens people's hearts to the Truth!


Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:14 am
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Rhythm of Earth wrote:
I read on a Magic Mushrooms site that you should take Magic Mushrooms once a month at most. Is that because too much is bad for you, while moderately it strengthens your synapses?

Two reasons

1. Doing it more often than once a month will weaken the effects; residual effects stay in the body for about that long.

2. Doing it too often can result in becoming 'burnt out', where you've become so used to detaching from 'reality' that you are no longer as well-adjusted to societal expectations.


Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:22 am
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Well, sure moderation is the key word as always. Even water gets dangerous in big amounts but it's still essential for life.

Actually if you read some reports it's said, that there is a kind of negative addiction and I could sign that, too. When I do it, I don't want to do it again for quite some time because there is just no reason to do it again. It's not a recreational drug.
Sure there is also a tolerance thing as you said PO.


Another interesting aspect if you didn't watch the video by Prof Franz X Vollenweider:

In the other major Zürich study, comparing subjects in a meditation state with subjects under the influence of psilocybin, 3-D EEGs showed striking similarities between the two states of consciousness. This result may further explain how psilocybin “awakens” the brain patterns that occur during meditative and spiritual states of consciousness.

http://www.heffter.org/research-hz.htm


Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:32 am
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Well, you can also look at it this way: Our Prophet s.a. has advised us that if we are unsure about whether something is permissible or not it is best to err on the side of caution and refrain from things that are doubtful. Sure you may miss out on the shrooms but you'll certainly feel a lot more confident that you didn't do a forbidden thing.

Also another thing, if you take the shrooms you could be tempted to try other kinds of drugs.


Wed May 04, 2011 10:38 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
jqt213 wrote:
Well, you can also look at it this way: Our Prophet s.a. has advised us that if we are unsure about whether something is permissible or not it is best to err on the side of caution and refrain from things that are doubtful. Sure you may miss out on the shrooms but you'll certainly feel a lot more confident that you didn't do a forbidden thing.


That's why we are discussing it. Or would you think our prophet s.a. would want us to shutdown our brains and don't think?


jqt213 wrote:
Also another thing, if you take the shrooms you could be tempted to try other kinds of drugs.


I would say this is quite untrue as it is also used in addiction treatment. Many people actually stop using drugs after this. For example I drank much in my youth. Since my experience with Mushrooms I never touched alcohol and I hope I won't :) I'm very happy with my life :)


Thu May 05, 2011 1:07 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
jqt213 wrote:
Also another thing, if you take the shrooms you could be tempted to try other kinds of drugs.

Yeah, more mushrooms!

Also, going to a festival tomorrow with three hits of LSD. 8-) Bring on the fun.


Thu May 05, 2011 1:47 pm
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
To me, it just doesn't seem right to take shrooms. Call me irrational if you want, but my gut feeling goes against the idea. For example I can't picture any Prophet or saintly person toking up a joint. Imagine someone giving the Juma Qutbah while stoned :lol:

@Erhan There's no problem thinking, discussing, or clarifying of course. The point I'm trying to make is simply that it's better to avoid an action that you have doubts about about whether it is permissible or not. This is strictly your own personal choice.


Fri May 06, 2011 11:19 am
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
PassiveObserver wrote:
jqt213 wrote:
Also another thing, if you take the shrooms you could be tempted to try other kinds of drugs.

Yeah, more mushrooms!

Also, going to a festival tomorrow with three hits of LSD. 8-) Bring on the fun.


Oh man, I can just see the face of a Anti-Drug Crusader Muslim reading this forum :lol: :lol: :lol:

Image

jqt213 wrote:
To me, it just doesn't seem right to take shrooms. Call me irrational if you want, but my gut feeling goes against the idea. For example I can't picture any Prophet or saintly person toking up a joint. Imagine someone giving the Juma Qutbah while stoned :lol:

@Erhan There's no problem thinking, discussing, or clarifying of course. The point I'm trying to make is simply that it's better to avoid an action that you have doubts about about whether it is permissible or not. This is strictly your own personal choice.


You can't smoke Magic Mushrooms...and you don't get "stoned". You're thinking of the evil green plant.

And how are we going to know if it is haram or not if we don't discuss it? Why not analyze the claims of both sides? And so far the other side has given such weak arguments that it's hard to be in doubt about shrooms :lol:


Fri May 06, 2011 11:20 am
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Unread post Re: Muslims' opinions on Magic Mushrooms
Before I reply, to avoid misunderstanding I want to clarify your arguments.


Magic Mushrooms are permissible because:

1- They have no toxic effect on the body, unlike other drugs
2- They do not impede a person's judgement in any way whatsoever/they only have positive effects on a person's thinking
3- They are not addictive


Is this what you are saying? Correct me if I'm wrong.


Sat May 07, 2011 1:49 pm
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