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 Hasheesh 
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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
You are entitled to your opinion on the matter.

I think by your logic though, aspirin is also haram. But as I said, you are free to your opinion.

Salaam

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Sat May 19, 2012 1:05 pm
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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
and we've all warned you and many others about this before Akhi, it is not up to us to declare things haraam and halal. only to discuss the reasons we think it may be one or another. i find it perplexing you can think its haraam though. if i offered you a pair of shoes made of hemp, would you refuse them? if i offered you some gas for your car that was made from hemp oil, would you refuse it? if you were having a panic attack would you rather take a xanax (proven highly addictive, contains harmful chemicals which cause long term damage to the body etc) or would you rather hit a vaporizer? it sounds to me like you ran with a crowd who overused it so now you're saying that because YOU used it in a bad way that means everyone is going to so since it wasn't good for you its not good for the world. and by extension its haraam. well i smoked tobacco too much and since it kills thousands a year, how bout i declare it haraam? should i go tell that to the brothers lighting up cigarettes outside the masjid? are they going to hell? not our place to decide.

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Rasulollah (pbuhaf) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is oppressed."

Then a man asked Rasulollah (pbuhaf): "I will help him if he is oppressed. But if he is the oppressor, how can I help him!?"

Rasulollah (pbuhaf) said: "You stop him from his oppression, for in that is help for him."

Anas bin Malik (r)

Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 3, #623


Sat May 19, 2012 1:13 pm
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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Maybe that's why Ulama stayed quiet about Morocco growing Hashish and exports it to Europe. Maybe they are confused on whether it is haram or Halal :? . Just joking.

I can tell you this much, Hashish can cause damages to one's brain, it is addictive and causes one to spend money buying than one to feed his own kids. I do not see Hashish being halal.


Sat May 19, 2012 1:22 pm
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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
insha wrote:
You are entitled to your opinion on the matter.

I think by your logic though, aspirin is also haram. But as I said, you are free to your opinion.

Salaam


I had to quote you and like thank your post because I find it very funny.

peanutqpublic wrote:
and we've all warned you and many others about this before Akhi, it is not up to us to declare things haraam and halal. only to discuss the reasons we think it may be one or another. i find it perplexing you can think its haraam though. if i offered you a pair of shoes made of hemp, would you refuse them? if i offered you some gas for your car that was made from hemp oil, would you refuse it? if you were having a panic attack would you rather take a xanax (proven highly addictive, contains harmful chemicals which cause long term damage to the body etc) or would you rather hit a vaporizer?


I have a Ted Baker Endurance suit made of Hemp - its not getting me high is it? I don't think hemp based fuels get anyone high as the THC would have been removed from the oils - ginger beer anyone? Its non alcoholic <- See my point?

Panic attacks? I beat those the day i stopped using meds like Diazepam and Seroxat, and gave up the weed too - slowly, i started to come back to Islam, and found that the sukoon (tranquility) of the heart is not to be found in a packet called Xanax - but in something called Dhikr. Try it.

peanutqpublic wrote:
it sounds to me like you ran with a crowd who overused it so now you're saying that because YOU used it in a bad way that means everyone is going to so since it wasn't good for you its not good for the world. and by extension its haraam.


I never ran with a crowd, I was a lone wolf, preying on the innocent because I found a way to make money actually grow on trees. I quickly established myself in my locality as Dr Dope - you want it? I got bucket loads of it. I smoked - sometimes with friends, other times on my own. During the last year of my smoking dope - I kept it to myself, because the people I smoked with, were becoming increasingly boring and predictable. So no, I did not run with any crowd - I observed a lot though.

peanutqpublic wrote:
well i smoked tobacco too much and since it kills thousands a year, how bout i declare it haraam? should i go tell that to the brothers lighting up cigarettes outside the masjid? are they going to hell? not our place to decide.


I still smoke ciggies, and I also am struggling with it. I will give it up soon insha-Allah - I believe that cigarrettes are haraam... try and buy a pack of ciggies in Makkah and Madinah, it's the same as buying a dime sack from some kid on the street - same experience, dodgy street deals lol... it's illegal / haraam to buy ciggies in Makkah and Madina.

I never said anyone will go to heaven or hell so don't put words in my mouth please... now to clarify my position about this hell or heaven thing.

Cannabis, like cigarrettes and alcohol are addictive, If we are addicted and we think we are going to hell for it - then think again, because you can get help. Allah knows your own personal jihaad, your struggles, HE is not an unfair GOD. If you are sincere in wanting to give up - then there are other options. I found them, why can't you?

Also, in the case of Insha - who is a medical user, I beleive it is permissable for him to use in moderation, and my advice is to study it (cannabis) extensively. For example - those vapes are not the way to go, as the vapour will affect your mindset and make you feel kinda good - as well as deal with the pain - but its no where near as the most effective method for dealing with pain thru cannabis.

If its pain relief you want, and choose cannabis because its the only thing that works when everything else has failed - then atleast try to use it medically. The vape con is a big one. eating cannabis works much better for pain relief as the THC is directly absorbed by the body, not thru vapour or smoke - but thru digestion.... just a heads up though - don't expect to enjoy the buzz - it's bloody strong and gives you face freeze. Oh - stick to indicas for back pain. Dont go for the sativas...

Also, I stated that "I beleive it is permissible if it is to be used as medicine" but I am no scholar, so don;t quote me.

Scimi


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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
I disagree on your stance that it's addictive... any more additive than anything else that is. Anything can be psychologically addictive to a weak mind.

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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Addiction is the key word bro Insha...

ask any addict if they are addicted and they all say NO, unless they enrolled in an addicts anonymous session. Come one bro - be real about it at least? All this "Anything can be psychologically addictive to a weak mind." comment is kinda weak itself, don't you think? It's escapist logic.

Weak minds often end up in mental institutions too... no one here is weak like that bro. We are all supposed to be "awoken" yet I find that the wake up project has members who propagate that cannabis is OK to use?

This is the only place on the internet where I have heard Muslims justify the use of cannabis for recreation.

Scimi


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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Who said it was being used for recreation? That's a straw man argument.

I wonder how much experience you have with drugs and addicts... saying that they "never" admit to being addicted is totally untrue, as I've met many addicts who know they are addicts. Saying that "anything can be psychologically addictive" isn't escapism (i.e. a mental diversion to escape the bad parts of life); it is an observed fact of life. You might want to brush up on the definition of that term.

You can't expect to throw out the baseless accusation that people develop chemical dependencies off of marijuana without being expected to provide some evidence... which there is not.

From your statements about your experience with it, it is totally different than mine. You seem to have been one of the people that was into the "culture" that builds itself around it from the way you talk about it. I've never wanted to have anything to do with that aspect of the plant because of how foolish I think it is.

I'm glad that Dhikr helped you with your anxiety disorder, but that small example isn't going to cure everything. No need to tell peanut to "try it".

I mean if you are bleeding, you can say "Allahu akbar" until you bleed out, or you can put a bandage on it. Not saying Allah couldn't stop the bleeding, but I doubt there would be a reason for Him to if the bandage is right in front of you.

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Sat May 19, 2012 7:35 pm
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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
insha wrote:
Who said it was being used for recreation? That's a straw man argument.


Who said it wasn't? Yours is the only example here that isn't for recreation that I am aware of at this time... the others want someone to justify their want to smoke.

insha wrote:
I wonder how much experience you have with drugs and addicts... saying that they "never" admit to being addicted is totally untrue, as I've met many addicts who know they are addicts. Saying that "anything can be psychologically addictive" isn't escapism (i.e. a mental diversion to escape the bad parts of life); it is an observed fact of life. You might want to brush up on the definition of that term.


No, I don't need to. The context you used the example in, is escapist. You can't see that?

insha wrote:
You can't expect to throw out the baseless accusation that people develop chemical dependencies off of marijuana without being expected to provide some evidence... which there is not.


Where did I say that? I didn't. Is this waswasa you are hearing? or is it the greens playing with you?

insha wrote:
From your statements about your experience with it, it is totally different than mine. You seem to have been one of the people that was into the "culture" that builds itself around it from the way you talk about it. I've never wanted to have anything to do with that aspect of the plant because of how foolish I think it is.


I too think it is foolish. The culture I was in - I have explained above... it should be clear from my posts - no need for guesswork, or putting words in my mouth which I never spoke.

insha wrote:
I'm glad that Dhikr helped you with your anxiety disorder, but that small example isn't going to cure everything. No need to tell peanut to "try it".


I tell everyone to try it, because in Islam we are taught "want for your brother what you want for yourself".

insha wrote:
I mean if you are bleeding, you can say "Allahu akbar" until you bleed out, or you can put a bandage on it. Not saying Allah couldn't stop the bleeding, but I doubt there would be a reason for Him to if the bandage is right in front of you.


So if the joint is there - you can forget about Allah? Is that what you are saying here Insha? :facep:

Quote:
Question:
I would like to know whether smoking cannabis is Haram in Islam ?

Answer:
Cannabis is a drug that effects the way the body acts. Doctors agree that it causes anxiety, depression, schizophrenia and anger. In Islamic terms, it is classified as a Khamar (intoxicant) and every intoxicant is Haram.


Source: http://www.islamiccentre.org/index.php? ... &Itemid=88

Simple as pie kin my book. And it's not me saying its haram either this time either...

Scimi


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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Scimi, I'm not going through the motions on you with this anymore. Anyone with eyes to read can see what you have said, see what I have said, and determine for themselves who they believe is right. I don't have the time to waste to quote your words to show you your strawman arguments, nor to defend my self from them either.





Salaam

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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
lemaghrebin wrote:
I do not see Hashish being halal.


i second it !


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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
That's great for you... please refer to the video I posted above.





Quote:
Toxicity is virtually nonexistent in natural marijuana. The toxicity levels of cannabis compounds are estimated at 40,000, meaning that a subject would have to ingest 40,000 times the regular dose to induce death. “In layman’s terms,” according to The New England Journal of Medicine, ”a smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.” [1] While that amount of consumption is certainly an impossible feat, in comparison, legal prescription medications (other than marijuana) cause thousands of deaths per year. [2] Common household drugs are much more lethal than marijuana. For instance, a lethal dose of caffeine is equal to about 100 cups of coffee. [3] In 1972, after reviewing the scientific evidence, the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse concluded that while marijuana was not entirely safe, its dangers had been grossly overstated. [4] Since then, researchers have conducted thousands of studies on humans, animals and cell cultures. None of those describe any findings dramatically different from those described by the National Commission in 1972. [5] In 2008, The Canadian Medical Association Journal published a review of research spanning 30 years, concluding that there are no serious adverse effects of cannabis use.[6] Contaminants, however, are known to be hazardous, especially to those suffering from immune disorders. [7]

[1] Annas, “Reefer Madness—The federal response to California’s medical-marijuana law.” The New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 337, No. 6, August 7, 1997

[2] “Death from drug errors rise sharply for outpatients.” The Seattle Times, Febraury 28, 1998

[3] American Psychiatric Association, Desk Reference to the Diagnostic Criteria from DSM-3-R

[4] National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse, 1972

[5] Buckley, “Is marijuana fear a myth?” National Review, August 24, 1997

[6] “The adverse effects of cannabinoids: implications for use of medical marijuana” Louisa Degenhardt, MPsych(Clin) PhD and Wayne D. Hall, PhD CMAJ • June 17, 2008; 178 (13). doi:10.1503/cmaj.080585.© 2008 Canadian Medical Association or its licensors

[7] Hollister, “Health aspects of marijuana.” Pharmacological Review, Vol. 38, No. 1, 1986


Cognitive effects:
Quote:
By:

Carl L Hart (1) Ph.D, Wilfred van Gorp (2) Ph.D, Margaret Haney (1) Ph.D, Richard W Foltin (1) Ph.D and Marian W Fischman (1) Ph.D



(1) Division on Substance Abuse, New York State Psychiatric Institute and Department of Psychiatry, College of Physicians and Surgeons of Columbia University, New York, NY USA
(2) Department of Psychiatry, Weill Medical College of Cornell University,, New York, NY USA



ABSTRACT



Although the ability to perform complex cognitive operations is assumed to be impaired following acute marijuana smoking, complex cognitive performance after acute marijuana use has not been adequately assessed under experimental conditions. In the present study, we used a within-participant double-blind design to evaluate the effects acute marijuana smoking on complex cognitive performance in experienced marijuana smokers. Eighteen healthy research volunteers (8 females, 10 males), averaging 24 marijuana cigarettes per week, completed this three-session outpatient study; sessions were separated by at least 72-hrs. During sessions, participants completed baseline computerized cognitive tasks, smoked a single marijuana cigarette (0%, 1.8%, or 3.9% 9-THC w/w), and completed additional cognitive tasks. Blood pressure, heart rate, and subjective effects were also assessed throughout sessions. Marijuana cigarettes were administered in a double-blind fashion and the sequence of 9-THC concentration order was balanced across participants. Although marijuana significantly increased the number of premature responses and the time participants required to complete several tasks, it had no effect on accuracy on measures of cognitive flexibility, mental calculation, and reasoning. Additionally, heart rate and several subjective-effect ratings (e.g., "Good Drug Effect," "High," "Mellow") were significantly increased in a 9-THC concentration-dependent manner. These data demonstrate that acute marijuana smoking produced minimal effects on complex cognitive task performance in experienced marijuana users.

(Full scholarly article here: http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v25/n ... 5716a.html)

...Despite the fact that marijuana (3.9% 9-THC) increased the amount of time participants required to complete several tasks, no impairments in accuracy were observedduring MicroCogÔ tasks and the only performance decrement observed during the standard laboratory battery was the percentage of correct digits recalled. The relatively few accuracy impairments observed is congruent with several other studies investigating acute marijuana effects on psychomotor and simple cognitive performance (Chait and Perry 1994; Azorlosa et al. 1995; Fant et al. 1998). Moreover, the present data expands these findings by showing that more complex cognitive performance is only minimally affected following acute marijuana smoking...

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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
we're told that if something intoxicates in great amounts that we are not to consume it in small amounts. so how can you say its haraam and at the same time justify its use medicinally? and if you accept that it has medicinal use then how can you say Insha is the only person who uses it medicinally? it has hundreds if not thousands of medicinal applications from insomnia to appetite enhancement, from stress reduction to pain relief. and what is the biggest killer around? STRESS. that's for EVERYONE. i mean really there's a very small number of people out there who have no need for stress relief. you say that your stress ended when you quit smoking, but at the same time you say you were on much heavier, more addictive drugs at the time, yet you blame the plant that grows naturally EVERYWHERE rather than the pharmaceutical poisons you were taking, and you use that to back up your argument. i still can't help but find it odd to see so many Muslims relying on these weak arguments against a plant that naturally grows everywhere. if Allah (swt) didn't want us to make the most of the hemp seed, why would it grow EVERYWHERE??????

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Rasulollah (pbuhaf) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is oppressed."

Then a man asked Rasulollah (pbuhaf): "I will help him if he is oppressed. But if he is the oppressor, how can I help him!?"

Rasulollah (pbuhaf) said: "You stop him from his oppression, for in that is help for him."

Anas bin Malik (r)

Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 3, #623


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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Scimitar wrote:
Where did I say that? I didn't. Is this waswasa you are hearing? or is it the greens playing with you?


i've seen you say some condescending and rude things before Scimi but this is ridiculous.

in answer to your question, since you apparently don't have the ability to remember what you said a couple posts ago:

Scimitar wrote:
Cannabis, like cigarrettes and alcohol are addictive

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Rasulollah (pbuhaf) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is oppressed."

Then a man asked Rasulollah (pbuhaf): "I will help him if he is oppressed. But if he is the oppressor, how can I help him!?"

Rasulollah (pbuhaf) said: "You stop him from his oppression, for in that is help for him."

Anas bin Malik (r)

Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 3, #623


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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Ehm.. Im not getting this thread... Are people trying to convince us that cannabis is halal?

If so then hell ya im back smoking cannabis, listening to satanic music and out partying with both male / females.

Tbh, anyone who tried cannabis cant deny that its haram. Anyone who say its not haram is the one whos smoking at the same time as hes reading this....


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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
:salaam:

You haven't understood this thread. It's about the medicinal use of it.

Please read the entire article.

In response to your statements trying to equate it with satanism:

Please refer BACK to the VIDEO posted above (re: straw man argument).


Here is the wiki link to it in case you can't watch videos (because they are haram)* ;)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Quote:
A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

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Last edited by insha on Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:58 pm, edited 5 times in total.

*please tell me some of you got this joke...



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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Moddi wrote:
Ehm.. Im not getting this thread... Are people trying to convince us that cannabis is halal?

If so then hell ya im back smoking cannabis, listening to satanic music and out partying with both male / females.

Tbh, anyone who tried cannabis cant deny that its haram. Anyone who say its not haram is the one whos smoking at the same time as hes reading this....


:daleel:

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Rasulollah (pbuhaf) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is oppressed."

Then a man asked Rasulollah (pbuhaf): "I will help him if he is oppressed. But if he is the oppressor, how can I help him!?"

Rasulollah (pbuhaf) said: "You stop him from his oppression, for in that is help for him."

Anas bin Malik (r)

Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 3, #623


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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Don't bring daleel on your argument, bring it on the argument of it from a medicinal point of view. I think that is what she meant.

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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Maybe i missunderstood this but... *knock, knock on the head, anyone inside?*

This is an endless topic. Its the None Hashish smokers vs Hashis smokers.

Its like when i defend myself when someone talks about cigarettes. Well yes it usefull for stress but again its destroying my body.

@ peanutqpublic, Are you for real? You want dalel that something like cannabis is halal or haram? How about a common sense? How about all of the health ahadith?, have u even examined what cannabis does to your brain? how much cells it kills.

So if i understood this right, i also have body pains, i have it but its because of work, i have also pain in my left foot, is that enough for me to get high ? And no its pain that make me not able to sleep at night, should i go and roll me some cannabis to be able to fall asleep.

ah screw this, this is another "myself, myself thread, all about my own gains and trying to convince others that what im doing is halal so that i can continue doing it" Not thinking that they might awake someone to even try it.

Imma out of here!


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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
Moddi wrote:
Maybe i missunderstood this but... *knock, knock on the head, anyone inside?*

This is an endless topic. Its the None Hashish smokers vs Hashis smokers.

Its like when i defend myself when someone talks about cigarettes. Well yes it usefull for stress but again its destroying my body.

@ peanutqpublic, Are you for real? You want dalel that something like cannabis is halal or haram? How about a common sense? How about all of the health ahadith?, have u even examined what cannabis does to your brain? how much cells it kills.

So if i understood this right, i also have body pains, i have it but its because of work, i have also pain in my left foot, is that enough for me to get high ? And no its pain that make me not able to sleep at night, should i go and roll me some cannabis to be able to fall asleep.

ah screw this, this is another "myself, myself thread, all about my own gains and trying to convince others that what im doing is halal so that i can continue doing it" Not thinking that they might awake someone to even try it.

Imma out of here!




You obviously have not read this thread, and I don't think you will have a strong standing in this discussion if you do not respect it enough to read every perspective. The fact that you think that it kills brain cells is a clear example how little you actually understand, and makes me feel as if you didn't even read MY posts above about it.

"Ah screw this" is a very immature attitude.

Don't hold strong opinions about things you don't understand.

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Unread post Re: Hasheesh
peanutqpublic wrote:
Scimitar wrote:
Where did I say that? I didn't. Is this waswasa you are hearing? or is it the greens playing with you?


i've seen you say some condescending and rude things before Scimi but this is ridiculous.

in answer to your question, since you apparently don't have the ability to remember what you said a couple posts ago:

Scimitar wrote:
Cannabis, like cigarrettes and alcohol are addictive


Please don't misquote me out of context again - this is what insha posted:

insha wrote:
You can't expect to throw out the baseless accusation that people develop chemical dependencies off of marijuana without being expected to provide some evidence... which there is not.


And this is how I replied:

Scimitar wrote:
Where did I say that? I didn't. Is this waswasa you are hearing? or is it the greens playing with you?


I did not say that smoking cannabis leads to other dependencies as bro Insha suggested - As you can see. Peanut, seriously... check, re-check and triple check every post you write to me - you're getting this wrong a lot. Must be some good stuff eh?

Please understand this sis Peanut: YES! Cannabis and Ciggies and Alcohol are habit forming - meaning addictive, ok? But that does not mean that if you do one - you will go and do the other - so don't put words in my mouth. Bottom line is - you guys are on the back foot and look desperate to want to justify this... it's not justified, I tell you this, so does the rest of the Ummah - the Sunnah is with the majority, surely you know that - and that also should force you to reflect a little and realise that you are the minority vote here... and all over the Muslim world.

These straw men are all created by you guys and you are blame shifting - not very wise is it? I asked you questions you couldn't answer bro insha... and you trapped yourself properly with this one:

insha wrote:
I mean if you are bleeding, you can say "Allahu akbar" until you bleed out, or you can put a bandage on it. Not saying Allah couldn't stop the bleeding, but I doubt there would be a reason for Him to if the bandage is right in front of you.


Scimitar wrote:
So if the joint is there - you can forget about Allah? Is that what you are saying here Insha? :facep:


Straw man is on fire now isn't he?

Scimi


Sun May 20, 2012 4:28 pm
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